Reloading for Shotgun...

[Nevada Ed]

Herters............. geeeze;

if that is the case, do you remember shooting the Peter's Blue Magic hulls ?

I also shot 50% from the 27 handicap line, for a free beer from one of the shooters on a bet.
He thought that I could not do that with a factory box of 2 3/4" .410 shells. Broke 14, chipped one.

Oh to be young again.

PS; He also paid for the ammo.

 

[mmaher94087]

I reloaded Federal paper, 12ga. with 700X and 1 1/8oz of 7 1/2. During one Trap match at the Peninsula Sportsman's Club in Palo Alto, CA, in the late '70's, I called for the bird.. and then had to sneeze; which I did.. TWICE. The trap boy marked the score as a loss. I recovered, and leveled my Winchester '97 with a 32" Full choke, and powdered the bird at about 3' off the ground out at the limits of the flight. I remember the Trap Boy frantically erasing. Everyone was shaking their heads.

 

[DWalt]

Yes, I have used Blue Magic shells, in fact I have used, at one time or another, about any shell ever made, plastic or paper. I started reloading shotshells seriously in the mid-1960s using Winchester and Federal paper shells. They would normally be good for only three or four loadings before the paper burned apart at the juncture of the metal outer shell and the paper. The best shell cases I ever used were Fiocci plastics, sort of purple colored. I once picked up several hundred once-fired Fiocci empties at the range. You can't wear them out. I probably loaded them about 20 times each before they gave out. The earlier Remington plastic shells had a strange inner shell base. After a few loadings, the inner base sort of crumbled apart. I think it was molded of something like sawdust and glue. Eventually I settled on using Winchester AA cases only, I still have over a thousand of them in both 12 and 20 (I shot skeet only in 12 and 20 events), but haven't loaded any shotshells in over ten years.

 

[Skeet 028]

Loaded shotshells in large lots since 1958> The best of the best were AAs..till they changed them. I loaded paper shells for quite a few years liked the plastic Remingtons of the early 60s but when the AAs came out they took over. Most 209 primers could be interchanged with many loads in the 12 and 20 ga. 28 and 410 were better with milder primers. BTW..anybody remember Alcan 220 Max fire primers. Same primer made today is the Fiocchi 616...one of the hottest made. Being in a group of 5 of us who had a business shooting pigeons I loaded well over a million shells by the age of 24. shooting 3000 to 5000 shells on a weekend per shooter meant a whole lot of reloading. We actually made money at it though. Red Dot is one of the best powders in 12 ga 20 ga Green Dot was good but Unique was better. Lower pressures go hand in hand with better patterns so we kept out loads reasonable. Shot skeet since the 60s and have about 100,000 registered birds. I no longer even load 12 except for a few hunting loads. Just my favorite K-80 has had 1/2 million rounds through it...80% or more reloads....almost half of that in the 410. Shotshell loading is much easier than metallic...but with the price of shot these days it is becoming very expensive.

 

[DWalt]

"shooting 3000 to 5000 shells on a weekend per shooter"
That's 120-200 rounds of trap and/or skeet per weekend or 60 to 100 rounds per day. I can't believe that is remotely possible for any human. That would take some unbelievable speed shooting, especially for a five-man squad, considering that one round would take normally about 20-30 minutes, say three rounds per hour at most with no breaks. Let alone reloading that many rounds every week. I felt I was doing well to shoot 8-10 rounds per weekend. And that was not every weekend. You guys must have had shoulders made out of cast iron.

 

[rwsmith]

Gee...

I have no idea what use the OP has in mind for his reloads. All I can say is that for 12 gauge trap and skeet, 1 ounce of shot (8 or 9) is fine for Skeet, while 1-1/8 ounce (7-1/2) is preferable for trap because the distance from the firing point to the clay target is somewhat greater than in skeet, and a little more and a little heavier shot is better. 20 gauge loads are seldom used for Trap, but are used more for skeet. 2-3/4" cases in 20 gauge are fully adequate for skeet, along with 3/4 ounce shot loads. Red Dot is excellent for such 12 gauge loads while Green Dot is preferable for 20 gauge. And I will re-state my previous opinion - it makes no difference which primer brand you use with typical RD/GD loads. I have never even seen any European shotshell primers and probably wouldn't have used them if I had. I always used whatever primer brand was the cheapest/most avaialble, most of my experience being with either CCI or Federal. I have occasionally used Winchester and Remington 209 primers, but not often because I seldom saw them for sale. Long ago, I even used Herter's primers, but Herter's (at least as a company) is long gone. And I never knew any trap or skeet shooter who was the least bit concerned about which primer brand he used. At one time many years ago, Remington made a smaller diameter battery cup shotshell primer exclusive to Remington and Peters shells, but they stopped using it long ago. I have loaded some of the old Remington small primer pocket shells, and it is simple to do. Just seat a fired 209 primer to enlarge the pocket, then knock out the fired primer. Thereafter load with 209 primers.

Gee DWalt. I said in the first sentence that these were to be TARGET LOADS. But I really do appreciate the input. It's a whole new world.

 

[Skeet 028]

"shooting 3000 to 5000 shells on a weekend per shooter"
That's 120-200 rounds of trap and/or skeet per weekend or 60 to 100 rounds per day. I can't believe that is remotely possible for any human. That would take some unbelievable speed shooting, especially for a five-man squad, considering that one round would take normally about 20-30 minutes, say three rounds per hour at most with no breaks. Let alone reloading that many rounds every week. I felt I was doing well to shoot 8-10 rounds per weekend. And that was not every weekend. You guys must have had shoulders made out of cast iron.

It was work.. No rounds of trap.. Hardest shooting I ever did. About half of the ammo was factory. I thought I was gonna have fun. I was really young ...and stupid. You did not carry just one gun. Doing the reloading was just as much work. A friend(a vet) went to South America(Bolivia??) to shoot doves. In 3 days he shot more than 6000 shells having fun. He and some friends went to Argentina every year. Ammo is not cheap down there.

 

[Nevada Ed]

I went out and practiced with eight boxes of different reloads from
the 16 back to handicap, just to see how they broke the birds.

PB,700x, Nitro100, Red Dot then finally in 2008 or so I started
using e3 for my Trap loads.
To save shot and keep the price down I started shooting Estate
or Federal hulls with the cheap CB 078 wad, reclaimed 8.5 and
13.5grs of e3 at 1140fps in a 7/8oz load. You can sub the AA12L
and Rem. STS if the cheap stuff does not work in your weapon.

13.5grs of e3 in a Estate with a CB1100 will give a 1oz. 1090fps
for the younger shooters in the family.

I found Red Dot, Green Dot and Unique powders to work and pattern the best for me.....
Universal was just a little too dirty for my likes but matched Unique.
They all have their "Areas" where each performs at its best.

Nothing like a "25" out of a box of shells..........

 

[Skeet 028]

The olympic committee changed the ammo allowed in Intl Trap and skeet from 1 1/4 ounce loads to a metric approximation of 7/8 ounce of shot expecting score to drop...Didn't actually happen. I think scores went up. American Trap and Skeet targets are thrown at about 60 MPH. International targets are right around 100 MPH. Live pigeon loads vary from a 3 1/4 Dr Eq 1 1/4 ounce of shot to 3 3/4 DE 1 1/4 ounce loads... usually copper of nickle plated shot too..But they shoot for big money in the world pigeon shooting arena. I shot in the World pigeon shooting championships a couple of times A very hard game

 

[DWalt]

For awhile I was using reclaimed shot for skeet. Our club (which was a fairly large and active one (8 skeet, 4 trap ranges) once mined the shot fall zone. I don't remember how many tons of shot was recovered, but a lot. Deal was, the shot mining company kept half the shot as payment. The club kept the other half and sold it to members at scrap lead prices. The catch was that it had to be cleaned, but that is not as bad a job as you might think, especially if you have a 10 year old boy to help. I bought something like 1000 pounds myself, and could clean about 50-75 pounds at a time in my back yard. Some members bought several tons. Cleaning involved blowing out all the loose dirt, leaves, sticks, trap fragments, etc with a leaf blower, washing with soap and water in a large galvanized tub, then spreading shot on sheets on the ground to dry in the sun. Then sifting in some powdered graphite and storing in 2 liter soft drink bottles. It is of course a mixture of shot sizes between #6 and #9, and most of it is at least flattened and out of round, no longer what could be called spherical and smooth. But boy, does it ever work well for skeet loads as it spreads better than new shot.

 

[DWalt]

Gee DWalt. I said in the first sentence that these were to be TARGET LOADS. But I really do appreciate the input. It's a whole new world.

But you didn't say trap (regular or handicap), skeet, sporting clays, Cowboy action, live pigeon or whatever the latest fad is.

 

[jtcarm]

Deer hunting, I’d just buy some slugs, I can’t see shooting enough rounds to make reloading worthwhile, unless you’re gonna start shooting clay also.

 

[rwsmith]

Oh yes..thank you...

But you didn't say trap (regular or handicap), skeet, sporting clays, Cowboy action, live pigeon or whatever the latest fad is.

I gotcha. Saw some people shooting at an RC plane with Tannerite attached in spots. Looked like fun.

Right now I'm shooting targets with slugs and shot at the range to get used to shooting at deer, especially with slugs. My son is the hunter, HE is the one that needs to practice. He's been ultra busy but says he wants to get out and shoot. I think this week might be good. I just like to reload anything, with the exception of .22 rimfire.

The Browning is pretty easy to shoot but I can only take lighter loads, expecially in that Akkar.

 

[Skeet 028]

Slugs...are not worth reloading. Too many reasons to go into...but accuracy is one of the main reasons. Buckshot?? is a different story. A mec 600 will be a big help but remember buckshot will have to be layered pretty much by hand. 20 ga is different on the sizes you can get in the shells. Many different cases you can use but...the more cylindrical cases will load buckshot better(more room). For target loads figure out the weight of shot you want to shoot and then weigh the buckshot to try to get close to the right figure. Another thing is to try to find the hardest buckshot you can. It WILL shoot better than the softer stuff. You can also buy buckshot molds from Lee and cast your own HARD buck. PITA but it will be kinda neat. At one time you could get plated buck from one company. I loaded a lot of buck in the past...mainly smaller stuff such as #4 buck and T and TT. I also used cases(ACTIV) you can no longer find because they had a LOT of room in the cases. Having lots of room will be a big thing once you start trying to load buckshot. To be honest the older original type of AA case was a great shotshell case but not for buckshot... the newer STS/Gunclub is in the same boat as they are almost the equivalent of the old AA. Since these are probably going to be reloaded only once I would recommend the straight cylindrical (purple at one time)Fiocchi case. From that point find the load in weight and velocity you want and try loading it into the empty with the recommended wad. You may have to change wads to be able to get the right amount of buckshot into the case. This will be mostly trial and error. I wish we were close as I have so many different wads you could try I could give you. Loading the target loads you want will generally NOT cause a great problem with pressures mainly because buckshot loads will probably tend to be light to begin with. I loaded heavy hunting loads in the past and even had loads tested by HP White Labs. It was a real learning experience. I guided waterfowlers for many years and wanted some very long range killing loads. 20 caliber buckshot(about size T) could penetrate completely through a Canada Goose at over a 100 yds. The problem was getting enough pellets on target at long ranges..Quite often the best chokes for large shot were not the ultra tight ones. Remember the faster you push it at the higher pressures will tend to make buck a bit out of round. Don't try buffering without loading data as the plastic buffer will really raise pressures....sometimes dangerously so. I had a friend who loaded 1 1/2 ounce with a buffer loads in some of the old Winchester compression formed magnum cases who blew the end completely off a Browning auto 5 barrel. But the barrel steel on the older A5s was relatively soft...Early steel shot loads were very hard on those guns too

 

[LostintheOzone]

Most people don't even bother to reload shotgun shells anymore unless you shoot thousands of rounds a year.

The fact is you can buy a flat (250 rds) of just about any shell you desire for the same price it would cost you to reload it. It used to be a money saver to reload back when shot was $1/lb. It's now $2/lb for bird/clays and a lot more than that for buck shot. There are no longer any lead smelters in the US so it has to be shipped in. My dealer doesn't stock shot anymore because people don't buy it. My guess is all the lead shot is being imported or the ammo is manufactured outside the US, maybe China, where they don't care about clean air.

If you go to any trap/skeet range you will notice that most people discard their hulls. The reason is they buy their ammo thru the club that buys it by the truck load and it's cheaper than reloading.

I did a quick calculation for loading buckshot. It was 0.75/rd.

I have a couple of MEC 650 progressives that haven't been used in 7 years. I used to load 300 rds a week. When a reloaded shell started costing me 0.25 I stopped reloading. I was only saving about 0.05/rd. over gun club prices and I didn't have to handle the lead.

But if you want to reload it get a Lyman manual. I have several I would give you for the cost of shipping. PM me if you want them. Im out of the shotgun reloading bidness.

 

[41]

No way I would use buckshot on deer. Go and get you some slugs.
I have seen too many deer run off when hit with buckshot.

 

[Gamecock]

inexpensive shot

I haven't seen inexpensive shot in 40 years.

 

[Gamecock]

The Lee Load-All works, and it's cheap. Probably next step up for you.

Unique is an excellent shotgun powder. No need to buy something else.

 

[rwsmith]

Did I say that????????

I haven't seen inexpensive shot in 40 years.

I should have said 'common lead shot' as opposed to steel or tungsten or whatever.

 

[Skeet 028]

Most people don't even bother to reload shotgun shells anymore unless you shoot thousands of rounds a year.

The fact is you can buy a flat (250 rds) of just about any shell you desire for the same price it would cost you to reload it.

Actually I just figured prices for reloading one ounce decent target ammo with local prices (from the gun club so definitely cheaper). A "flat" of good target loads would cost me right at 37.50 with magnum lead shot. I can make my own shot making my reloads even cheaper. Any decent 12 ga target loads will cost you at least 6 dollars or more a box so it is still cheaper to reload. I know many local people that do. Go to 20 28 and 410 ammo and it is much cheaper than factory ammo. Buckshot and slugs are very expensive and to be honest can be loaded cheaply also. Buckshot can be reloaded to be as good or better than some factory loads. Slugs??not so much...and I tried.