reloading for top breaks 32 and 38 SW

[old top break]

I'm putting this thread here because it may get lost and buried down in the reloading section and not get noticed, and it's an often asked question about top breaks, one that I asked myself but got no replies to here except one

after 2 months of occasional research, and also racking my memory because I vaguely remembered reading the info somewhere before, I finally found definitive information in my old Lyman reloading manual specifically for top break pistols of the late 1800's.

Lyman specifically states to not exceed their "starting loads" with smokeless powder for any top break pistol, being the top break is inherently weaker than a full frame design.

a good rule of thumb is, max load 2 grains powder for the 38 Sw, and 1 grain powder for the 32 SW, smokeless in both cases

I also found in my research some info from cartridge collectors, where they said when buying old ammo that is loose and assorted headstamps, if the cartridge case has a cannelure, it is most likely smokeless. And if the cartridge case is smooth, it is a factory blackpowder load. This applies to ammo produced up to around 1940.

yesterday I dissected 3 rounds of vintage ammo and sure enough that is correct. One was smokeless w/cannelure, and 2 were blackpowder loads without cannelure.

all were 38 SW loads. The smokeless load had 2.5 grains of powder, and BP loads had 5 to 6 grains of what appeared to be 3F BP

 

[old top break]

I'd like to add, that this week I was able to reload 38SW using 38 Special dies, it worked just fine, and shot just fine.

 

[dogngun]

OTB- Many years ago, I used .38 Spl dies to load

.38 S&W cases, using single ended wadcutter .357 bullets, seated out to the standard length. The open end expands to till the grooves, and shot very well. I used Unique, but the old Unique, and I have no idea how much. I shot it in top break Smith revolvers, including 2 single actions. I just bought a New Departure that has bad spots on the nickel, but is very tight and solid. I do intend to shoot it, and should probably start looking for loading info, too.

Thanks.

mark

ADDED: Dug out my Lee Modern Reloading manual, and I find that the listing for Unique (new version) using a 145 grain bullet is 2.9 gr....also recommended is Green Dot, 2.2 gr and Win 231, 2.3 gr...these are their top loads for that bullet weight.This is from the 2001 edition. FWIW.

 

[Oyeboteb]

I have been meaning to get around to loading for the couple of S & W .38 Top Breaks I have, but my interest was to use 3F Swiss Black Powder.

This, with the appropriate weight Bullet ( one could even hang the Bullet out as far as possible too to get in a tiny bit more BP ito the non-Baloon-Head Cases of today which hold less, where it ) should duplicate their original Charges, and, not offer any more strain for them, that the Cartridges of their Black Powder era day did.

Granted, after about 1907 or so, the S & W Break Tops, and, soon after, by 1913 or so, the Iver Johnson ones, were rated for Smokeless, none the less, as for me, I would find more fun, and satisfaction, and, feel better about it, using a good grade of BP, even for the ones made in the Smokelss era.

 

[old top break]

thanks for posting replies. I have loaded BP cartridges for my 44 Colt replica, and 303 British rifle, they are a blast to shoot and very accurate. The 303 was more accurate than any smokeless rounds I ever shot through it. I hesitate to load a lot of BP rounds for the old Smiths however, the cleanup requiring soap/water and a good drying is tedious, and any spots missed will tend to surface rust. But there's nothing easier than BP to load, fill 'er up and press a bullet in.

let me add that using the 38 Special dies, the only difference was no bullet crimp possible, as the crimp on the 38 special die is up higher and the short SW case never can reach it. This didn't affect reloading however, because on the belling operation, just don't bell the case as much, and the bullet will seat tight and stay put

 

[Geno44]

Two or one grain of what?

In the original post, no specific smokeless powder number or name is mentioned. Would this be Bullseye, Unique or what? Thanks.

 

[nutsforsmiths]

I reload my 38 S&W rounds using 38 Super dies. They work fine and shoot great.

 

[DWalt]

I also use .38 Super dies. My overall best load uses 125 grain lead bullets (.357") and 3 grains of Unique. The combination of the light bullet and a slower propellant keeps the chamber pressure down. I have fired many hundreds of this load through a S&W DA 38 4th Model. I have a newer (1960s) H&R Defender, and I load a little heavier for it, 3.5 grains of Unique. I have gone as high as 4 grains, but 3.5 seems more accurate and has less recoil.

I understand 9mm dies work OK also.