Reloading Keith Bullets in 357 Magnum

[Ben_hutcherson]

I've recently acquired some true, honest to goodness 168gr Keith-type SWCs, and would like to get some opinions from the brain trust here as to how folks like to load these type bullets.

My Lyman #49 has load data for a bullet very similar to the one I have, so have that as a starting point and double check for any information. I still like to get as many options and opinions as possible, and will likely load up several different combinations to find what works best(I have 500 of these to play with, and can easily get more).

These will primarily be shot out of my S&W 27-2 and 28-2, although some may find their way into my Colt Trooper. All of these have relatively short cylinders which, as I understand, will necessitate crimping over the top driving band-although I will certainly make up some dummy rounds to try all of this out. I will also be shooting some out of a 92 model rifle, and am not adverse to putting together a separate load for this(I've done so for other bullets).

The "classic" load that I keep coming across is 14gr of 2400 with a standard primer. This is certainly something that I will try, but of course am looking for other possibilities.

Just to give some idea of what I have to work with, I have on hand the following "Magnum" powders

Alliant 2400
Alliant 300MP
Winchester 296
Vihtavouri N110
I can also get my hands on IMR 4227 easily enough if it would give me any advantage over any of the above listed powders.

In addition, I have medium-slow and medium to medium fast powders
Alliant Herco
IMR 800X

Unique
CFE Pistol
PB

And maybe one or two others that I'm forgetting.

I have on hand standard primers from all of the major American brands, magnum primers from CCI and Federal, and CCI Rifle primers. I keep my brass separated by headstamp, and have a plentiful supply from all the major American brands to work with too.

So, I'd appreciate any thoughts, suggestions, or pet loads folks may have for this bullet in this caliber. As I mentioned, I do
have a loading manual with a similar bullet, so will check any suggestions here against that to make sure nothing sounds too out of hand.

I've reloaded a lot of 357 Magnum, but this is my first experience using a bullet this heavy(I generally stick to 158s, and sometimes stray to 140s or 125s). Thus, I'm going into this a bit cautiously but know that this is a popular enough bullet style that at least some folks here likely have some experience loading it.

 

[alwslate]

That bullet is too long for use in N frame cylinders as you already
know. Pay attention to the OAL listed with any loading data you have.
Most of the heavy loads for this bullet have been worked up with the
crimp over the first driving band and have been with 2400. My Lyman
Pistol and Revolver Handbook lists a maximum charge of 2400 as
13.5 grs and with a magnum primer.

 

[jaymoore]

Speer found that 2400 is more consistant with standard primers, and I don't recall EK recommending magnum primers, so I've always used the regular sort.

Have had trouble getting .357s to shoot well with cast bullets, at least as compared to what I can do with jacketed loads, regardless of bullet weight. (testing out to 100yds) Seems easier to do well with the larger calibers.

To date, though, best cast bulleted.357 results have been with 2400 for any loads hotter than .38 Spl. levels. But have yet to try some powders. Waiting for supply to ease before investgating further.

 

[rwsmith]

2400 gives up very little

In some weights in the .357, 2400 gets as much velocity as 110/296 and 2400 is more forgiving and versatile. A medium load does good, but it's fun to play with the heavy loads, which get a bit painful in my 686. I'd assume they'd be much more comfortable when shot in an N frame gun. A standard primer works well with 2400, too.

 

[Nevada Ed]

A lot will depend on how the diameter of the bullet and its hardness match your weapons on what the correct speeds will be for accuracy and keeping leading to a minimum.

I have gotten my best accuracy with the heavier bullet with a 95 to 98% load of 2400 powder. I save the supper fast for the copper jacket bullets but that is not to say you can't go for warp speed with the lead bullets.
The only thing is that the larger bullets can start to get a little heavy in the recoil department going past 1200 fps or more.

I have not loaded that heavy a bullet in my 357's so I do not know if it can reach 1300 fps. Having to be set the bullet deeper into the case will add to the pressures of the load, so you do need to be careful with maximum loads.

I have used fast powders for target work for good accuracy.......
that 800-x worked get with the data given by the old IMR sheet but you may need to see what works in your revolvers. Just remember that 7.0 grs of 800-x is a pretty heavy load in the J frame in a 38 case with a 158 lead bullet.

Good loading.

 

[Doubless]

Elmer liked the 170-grain bullet in the .357, as I understand it, and he preferred 2400. You don't specifically state what you are looking for, but I will say this: just because they put 100 aspirin in a bottle doesn't mean you have to take all 100 of them because you have a headache! That 168-170 will do some pretty remarkable things at velocities as low as 1000 fps.

I would not ignore Herco. It may not give you top velocities, but it is a darned fine handgun powder.

 

[29aholic]

I like 5gr of 700X in mag cases. If I run the bullet down to the top of the crimp groove it will fit in my Reg. Mag.

 

[nicky4968]

Load them in .38 Special cases. Much information on the .38-44 on this forum. My favorite with 2400 in a Model 28. I won't post the charge, as I don't have it in front of me written down, but it is quite common.
The few feet a second difference between the .38-44 load and a .357 load crimped in the wrong place will make no never mind.

 

[Ben_hutcherson]

I tried some with 13.5gr 2400 and crimped over the front of the front driving band(this gave me an OAL consistent with the Lyman manual).

I didn't shoot that many of them, but found them to be very accurate out of my 8 3/8" 27-2. Recoil was stout, but I've shot worse out of that gun.

Unfortunately, the recoil caused the grip screw(factory target grips) to work loose after the 4th cylinder, and I didn't have a screw driver with me to get the grips snugged back down. That ended my shooting with that gun for the day.

I also tried a few out of my new(to me) Dan Wesson snub nose. That gun has Pachmyars, and they soaked up the recoil really well to make it almost pleasant to shoot even with a stout load. Unfortunately, I also had technical problems with that gun that kept me from experimenting too much. Specifically, I think that the gap is set too tight, and it bound up after the gun warmed up. I need to order a barrel wrench and shim so that I can get everything set up correctly on that gun.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

My all time favorite bullet. I use it exclusively in all my 357's. I push it with 12.3-13 grs. of 2400. As others have stated you will have to crimp it on the front band to make it work in 27's/28's/pythons etc. Have killed several deer & hogs with it among other smaller game.