Reminder that off-body carry is a caution
- Thread starter Erich
- Start date
Unfortunately, this is more common than one might think. I've personally heard too many stories that "two days later I realized my holster was empty. Then I panicked and finally remembered I had unholstered it to use the toilet. I went back there and of course it was gone."
He hung his gun up on a hook by the trigger guard?!?
Who in the world would ever think that was a good idea?
Super Trucker
Member
Actually smart guys fasten their belt near their knees and never remove the gun from its holster.
If they are concerned about those looking under the wall they can take the elastic part of their drawers and pull it over the grip, this also keeps gun oil out of their drawers.
A gun that doesn't leave a holster is very hard to have a ND with.
Like many things in law enforcement, it’s hard to explain to somebody who never had to actually deal with it. I don’t expect you to understand . . .
I don't do off body carry. I've seen too many women leave their purses behind and I have a neighbor who had her pocketbook stolen out of her shopping cart in the time it took her to grab a Loaf of bread off the shelf.
I've never seen a CSPD cop in a public restroom. It never came up but it was a rule at every CSU/City facility I ever worked at that the employee restrooms were available to the police.
When I was working as a Rover I knew all the single occupancy restrooms on my route. I always went to one of them and put my handgun on a towel right in front of the door.
I don’t mean to offend but you'd have to be pretty dumb to put anything inside the trigger guard of a loaded handgun unless you were ready to shoot.
I've never seen a CSPD cop in a public restroom. It never came up but it was a rule at every CSU/City facility I ever worked at that the employee restrooms were available to the police.
When I was working as a Rover I knew all the single occupancy restrooms on my route. I always went to one of them and put my handgun on a towel right in front of the door.
I don’t mean to offend but you'd have to be pretty dumb to put anything inside the trigger guard of a loaded handgun unless you were ready to shoot.
Last edited:
NFrameFred
Member
A serious subject. Dealing with what it means to be human and LEO or not, acknowledging that there are at least a thousand and one things that can distract you, from having a troubled mind from the chewing you just took from your boss, to worrying about your sick kid at home, to your pending divorce, to the appointment you're already five minutes late for, to . . . . on and on and on. And for anyone that thinks "I'D NEVER DO THAT!", that's called "hubris".
Gotta be one of the most sickening, panicked feelings anyone could experience to realize they've left their CCW somewhere out of their control. Can't imagine having to deal with that after rushing back to find it's not where you left it . . .
Gotta be one of the most sickening, panicked feelings anyone could experience to realize they've left their CCW somewhere out of their control. Can't imagine having to deal with that after rushing back to find it's not where you left it . . .
Not a smart move for sure.
I know an FBI agent that went to dinner with her husband and parents. On the car ride back from the restaurant, she discovered that she'd left her purse containing her pistol in the booth. She called the restaurant and luckily they found it before it was stolen.
OP
Erich
Member
A local cop was disciplined a few years back after she did the same thing.
If your law-enforcement wisdom and experience means you think that was a GOOD idea, then yeah, you're right. I don't understand...
Autonomous
Member
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2017
- Messages
- 1,126
- Reaction score
- 1,748
Hanging a loaded gun, especially one without a conventional safety, on a hook is stupid as evidenced by the results.
Even worse is having so little awareness and control that you loose a dozen rounds in random directions in an occupied building.
I don't know if that sort of incompetence can be trained out.
Even worse is having so little awareness and control that you loose a dozen rounds in random directions in an occupied building.
I don't know if that sort of incompetence can be trained out.
SnidelyWhiplash
Member
This is not about off-body carry...so I apologize for that. It is a cautionary story...and absolutely true.
About 25+ years ago when I was an instructor and LEO...we were having our semi-annual qualifications for all in the agency and we used the range for the local county police.
In the cleaning room there was a 9mm size hole in the wall with a sign over it saying "Glock 17" and the name of the offending agency. What happened was the agency involved was having qualifications and there was an apparently attractive woman officer. So...the Lieutenant wanted to make some points with her and was going to show her how to field strip her issue Glock.
Anyone familiar with a Glock knows you have to release the sear prior to removing the slide. Well...the all-knowing LT dropped the magazine but didn't clear the chamber before squeezing the trigger and fired the piece.
I followed the trajectory of the round. It went through the wall...then through the adjacent housekeeping closet. From there it went through the women's bathroom. There was no one in there so I followed the trajectory further. It went through one stall...through the second stall with a slight ricochet off the inside of the door through the stall wall out across the room and through the outer wall where it went who knows where.
There were fortunately no injuries but if anyone was sitting in one of the stalls and was constipated they wouldn't have been after that!
The agency involved offered to make repairs but the host agency declined...the wanted to keep it as a learning tool.
The safety rules are there for a reason.
About 25+ years ago when I was an instructor and LEO...we were having our semi-annual qualifications for all in the agency and we used the range for the local county police.
In the cleaning room there was a 9mm size hole in the wall with a sign over it saying "Glock 17" and the name of the offending agency. What happened was the agency involved was having qualifications and there was an apparently attractive woman officer. So...the Lieutenant wanted to make some points with her and was going to show her how to field strip her issue Glock.
Anyone familiar with a Glock knows you have to release the sear prior to removing the slide. Well...the all-knowing LT dropped the magazine but didn't clear the chamber before squeezing the trigger and fired the piece.
I followed the trajectory of the round. It went through the wall...then through the adjacent housekeeping closet. From there it went through the women's bathroom. There was no one in there so I followed the trajectory further. It went through one stall...through the second stall with a slight ricochet off the inside of the door through the stall wall out across the room and through the outer wall where it went who knows where.
There were fortunately no injuries but if anyone was sitting in one of the stalls and was constipated they wouldn't have been after that!
The agency involved offered to make repairs but the host agency declined...the wanted to keep it as a learning tool.
The safety rules are there for a reason.
Last edited:
I don't understand this statement. I don't do off body carry. The only possible exception to that is when I'm sitting at home for the day and I'm wearing gym shorts and a t-shirt or pajama bottoms and a t-shirt or whatever else you couldn't carry a gun while you were wearing in which case my gun is sitting on the coffee table right in front of me.
If I never offbody carry then I can confidently say that I will never leave my gun behind
NFrameFred
Member
There's been a split in the original premise of carrying "off body" (briefcase, shoulder pouch, etc.) and those who have related inadvertently leaving their piece after laying it aside temporarily (usually on the toilet or such). I've never done it but have believed many when they say they have and being human, I can understand how some of the intense personal distractions I cited could cause some to do just that. I would like to think I never would, but when my father was on his deathbed in the hospital I laid my cell phone aside to wash my hands and walked off and left it on the sink in a hospital lavatory. Fortunately I caught my mistake before going too far and retrieved it before someone picked it up. Suffice to say, I was distracted and not in a great place mentally. I was just saying that it's dangerous to say "I'd never do that" about a lot of most of the things we fallible humans find ourselves doing. I've always followed the thought of "never say 'never'".
I agree with this post.
On the topic of public restrooms I haven't had this issue since I retired.
TMI Warning: Every morning I eat 4 prunes. at around dinner time I have 3 more. I haven't had any reason to relieve myself in public since I retired.
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2005
- Messages
- 8,987
- Reaction score
- 11,136
My off-body carry for my snubnose revolver is usually the console of my car. I never worry about leaving it in stall #3.
And yet Blackhawk has made a small fortune selling a holster that inserts a plastic thing in the trigger guard that you can't see causing a whole world of problems from ND's to locking the weapon in the holster and not able to remove the weapon.
Are you talking about the tab that locks around the FRONT of the trigger guard in the Blackhawk molded Kydex retention holsters? The one with the push button release?
Like this one?
I'd be really interested to read the details of a documented case where the retention device in a Blackhawk holster contacted the trigger of a holstered pistol, resulting in a ND. Can you provide a link to such a case? Maybe my Google-fu is weak today, because I couldn't find any.
Since the locking tab inside the trigger guard is on the opposite side - away from the trigger - and the gun cannot be forced forward far enough for it to get anywhere near the trigger, I'd like to read an explanation of how that is even possible.
As for it locking the gun in the holster, I can see where the retention device might break or be jammed up to where you can't get it to release by pushing the button.
But I'm having a hard time imagining any scenario where the retention system in a Blackhawk holster could lead to a ND.
Please, share any info you may have uncovered about that issue with us all...
Last edited:
The real issue with the BlackHawk Serpa holsters is that the retention device assembly is incredibly fragile. It was a rare range session that didn't see one of those assemblies explode, immediately modifying a retention holster into a non-retention holster. The retention device is constructed such that it engages immediately after the front of the trigger guard passes it, and it snaps into place well forward of the trigger. The form fitting design of the holster prevents the pistol from moving further into the holster, thus preventing the retention lever from ever contacting the trigger.
Glock negligent discharges generally occur in one of two main scenarios. The first is holstering the pistol with your finger on the trigger. I have seen this happen, and rendered first aid to the officer, who suffered a through and through to the side of the buttock. Luckily, no others on the line were injured when the bullet struck the gravel deck.
The second is holstering the pistol with a foreign object in the trigger guard. The most common culprit is the cord lock on a drawstring about the waist of a jacket. I haven't seen one of these, but I know others who have . . .
Edit: I say Glock, but the above scenarios are possible with any striker fired pistol without a manual external safety engaged prior to holstering . . .
Glock negligent discharges generally occur in one of two main scenarios. The first is holstering the pistol with your finger on the trigger. I have seen this happen, and rendered first aid to the officer, who suffered a through and through to the side of the buttock. Luckily, no others on the line were injured when the bullet struck the gravel deck.
The second is holstering the pistol with a foreign object in the trigger guard. The most common culprit is the cord lock on a drawstring about the waist of a jacket. I haven't seen one of these, but I know others who have . . .
Edit: I say Glock, but the above scenarios are possible with any striker fired pistol without a manual external safety engaged prior to holstering . . .
Last edited:
I was talking to a Dr friend and told him that I carry everyday everywhere. I asked him if he knew the hardest part of concealed carry . He guessed correctly , it is sitting on toilet. and of course as you stated, you need to remove pistol from holster. Only place to put it that is not filthy in public bathroom is in your underwear. If you go COMMANDO , I can't help you !
Last edited:
