removal of broken extractor rod

[Ralf Walt]

I read the thread on finding the model number for a revolver that doesn't have it inside the yoke. I'm guessing it's a model 14 but not sure.

Here is my info:

type: hand ejector
serial number: K 109xxx
S/N on the front gripstrap: no
right side of barrel: "38 S&W SPECIAL CTG"
left side of barrel: "SMITH & WESSON"
barrel length: 6 in
sights: adjustable
strain screw: yes
butt swivel: no
lanyard ring: no
screws: 5 (4 plus 1 trigger guard screw)
see images for numbers on frame under yoke

The threaded part of the ejector rod has broken off inside the cylinder. Any ideas on how to extract it?

Thanks

 

[Doug M.]

I'm not an expert, but I am pretty sure that revolver is a pre-14/K38. Great shooters. I have a later one and it makes me look like a good shot. Someone will come along and give you a more nuanced answer soon.

 

[murphydog]

Welcome and thank you for providing excellent ID information!

This is a K-38 Masterpiece from 1951. After 1957 it was also called the model 14 but this one pre-dates model number assignments.

You should see the 97939 stamped on the lower side of the grip frame and the yoke arm, indicating these parts were fitted together at the factory and are all original to the gun.

 

[DWalt]

It is a K-38 Masterpiece. Too early (1950-51) to have a model number, that did not happen until the late 1950s. No suggestions about the extractor knob without looking at it.

 

[Ralf Walt]

I'm for sure going to need a replacement extractor rod and maybe some other parts. Would parts for a model 14 be interchangeable with this K-38?

 

[JP@AK]

Ralf Walt

As others have said, you have a K-38 Masterpiece (no model number). At that serial number it most likely left the factory in 1951.

As for the replacement extractor rod, you need one from any postwar K-38 up to and including a Model 14. However, the rod from a Model 14-1 or later will not work, because the threads were changed in 1959, with the introduction of the Model 14-1.

You should check with Numrich or Jack First. One or both will probably have that part.

As for "other parts," it depends on what parts you are talking about.

 

[Ralf Walt]

Thanks for noting the changes within the same model. That helps.

 

[Green Frog]

Tell us more (or better yet, show us pictures) of this ejector rod situation.There are also a couple of springs as well as the outer and inner portion of the rod. As has been mentioned, the part of the rod that actually screws in is threaded in the opposite direction from the later ones, so it's vital that you know just what parts to get.
And welcome to the S&W Forum and Insane Asylum. Dealing with this first Smith and getting it repaired properly will be a good choice to start you down the road to join us crazies where we live!
Green Frog

 

[cgt4570]

The ejector rod (and associated parts) from most K frames (4" barrel or longer) from circa 1947 to 1959 will work.
Models 10, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18 and all of their pre-model numbered counterparts.
.38 Military & Police
.38 Masterpiece
.38 Target Masterpiece
.32 Masterpiece
.22 Masterpiece
.22 Target Masterpiece

If you can't find what you need, PM me and I'll check my stash.

As for removing the broken shaft, I would try gently with a screw extractor first. Any machinist or gunsmith should be able to do it easily.

It's conventional right hand threads, so "lefty loosy" to remove.

 

[Cotis]

The rod is threaded into the extractor/ejector star, as others have said your year rod/star is conventional threads, “lefty loosy”. The star, center rod, and associated springs should all fall out of the cylinder since the rod is broken.

The fact that it is broken off does not bode well for the star. If there is any chance of salvaging the star it needs to be removed with an exacter bit (I would guess 50/50 chance) or a left handed drill bit smaller than the minor of the rod thread diameter. The bit will try to unscrew the broken piece while cutting. A “normal” right hand twist drill bit will not work, it will tighten the broken piece while drilling. This operation needs to be precise, a good drill press or milling machine with extrator star securely fixtured.

 

[Ralf Walt]

Well, here's the long version. When I received the gun there was heavy rust on the extractor rod at the front of the cylinder. Don't know why it would rust so badly there when there isn't any rust anywhere else. Powder residue? I used rust remover on it and as you can see it also removed, as expected, the bluing. There are gouge marks in the extractor rod probably from pliers while trying to unscrew it. I'm guessing that's when it snapped off. So a portion of the extractor rod is still screwed into the extractor inside the cylinder.

The center pin should be removable but it's also rusted inside the extractor and won't budge. I didn't want to use the same rust remover solution as before because I know it'll remove the bluing on the cylinder. I've been using penetrating oil hoping it may be enough to eventually free it up.

The extractor (star) will move back and forth within the cylinder but when I try to remove it from the cylinder it won't come out. As a last resort I could cut it off though I was hoping to salvage it.

I'm having trouble finding the correct parts diagram for this gun. The ones I've find online are for the later model 14's. Some include a gas ring (5030) while other diagrams don't. I don't know if mine has a gas ring or not.

 

[rct269]

Let me suggest you soak the assembly in Kroil---and by soak, I mean submerge the entire assembly. Squirting a few drops into the hole comes under the heading of "fun for the feeble minded"---don't bother.

And "soak" means a looooooooong time---days if need be. Try removing whatever after a day. If nothing seems inclined to move, keep on keeping on!

"Some's good, more's better, and too much is just right!"

And should you come to find out who's responsible for this mess, do the world a favor, and do what you think is appropriate---a good dose of clod repellent perhaps.

Ralph Tremaine

 

[H Richard]

I have found pipe cleaners are often good in these situations. Getting into small places to scrub clean without any abrasive.

 

[Ralf Walt]

I'm going with the soaking idea for a while. I know it takes time. Expecting the center pin to free up eventually. Once it's out I'll try to extract the broken off piece of extractor rod. If that fails (probably will) I should be able to replace with a new extractor and extractor rod, right? So long as the cylinder is not damaged.

 

[Wiregrassguy]

If you don't have a soaking quantity of penetrating oil, you can make some inexpensively by making a 50-50 solution of auto transmission fluid and acetone or mineral spirits. Put the parts and solution in a sealable chemical-resistant container like a paint can so the aromatics don't evaporate. Then leave them there for a week or so.

 

[deadin]

I should be able to replace with a new extractor and extractor rod

If you have to replace the extractor itself, remember that the cylinder ratchet is part of it and you may screw up the timing....

 

[mikepriwer]

The lower half of the extractor rod should come out. Sometimes the last 1/4" of travel is sticky. Just keep working it back and forth, and it should come out. Don't twist it - just keep working it. There is probably some rust or other residue on the end. Don't cut it.

Mike Priwer

 

[rct269]

"extractor rod"

Now there's an interesting term! You'd think a "hand ejector" would have an ejector rod.

Some wise soul needs to explain this---slowly and carefully.

Ralph Tremaine

 

[Cotis]

"extractor rod"

Now that's an interesting term! You'd think a "hand ejector" would have an ejector rod.

Some wise soul needs to explain this---slowly and carefully.

Ralph Tremaine

OK, I will bite.

Page 52 of Kuhnhausen 5th edition shop manual:
“Historical note: Although S&W swing-out cylinder revolvers have been called Hand Ejectors by the factory since introduction- factory parts listings list the hand ejecting rod as an extractor rod. Revolversmiths tend to think of this part based on function- i.e., as an extractor/ejector rod and thus use the terms extractor rod and ejector rod interchangeably. Purists are forewarned that extractor is used in the text of this manual.”

 

[DWalt]

An extractor removes (extracts) the casing from the chamber. An ejector is generally a separate part that propels the case away from the gun after the case has been extracted from the chamber by the extractor. For a revolver, it is seems more correct to call the rod and cylinder star as extractor components as there is really no separate ejector other than gravity. Of course, for semiauto pistols and most rifles and shotguns, there are clearly both extractors and ejectors present.