removal of broken extractor rod

[mikepriwer]

Here are a couple pictures of the cylinder parts from K80333, a gun that is identical to yours. The first picture shows the upper half of the extractor rod, the center pin, and the rear face of cylinder.

On the left is the extractor rod. On the threaded end, you can see how much metal is trapped in the lower half of the rod. It's 5/8" total, from its end to the shoulder on the rod. Right now, you can't get to it, because the center pin is in the way.

The element in the middle of the picture is the center pin. You'll notice the ring on it, which serves two purposes. First it limits the downward travel of the center pin, and second it acts as a base for the spring that is around the center pin. That spring is compressed by the end of the top half of the extractor rod, causing the pin to move downward to retain the cylinder when it is closed. Right now, the ring and that spring are preventing you from pulling the center pin out of the bottom half of the extractor rod, because the spring is being compressed by the broken end of the top half of the extractor rod, and the ring.

The next picture is a closeup of the extractor star.

You can see the two red lines going into the spanner slots on the center piece of the extractor star. That center piece unscrews, using a small spanner wrench (two spanner pins go into those two slots) . It has a standard right-hand thread, so it loosens to the left.

If you can get it out, you might, or maybe not, be able to pull the center pin out of the lower half of the extractor star. If not, then the extractor star does come off the extractor rod. Gary Lowe had that center piece come loose, and when he removed it, the extractor star itself came off, either by unscrewing it, or by lifting it, from the extractor rod.

It's important that you get the lower half itself pulled through the bottom of the cylinder, so that you can work on it. There is a very small finger-like projection, that is fragile, and is located in the bottom of the cylinder. It's the positioning guide for the extractor lower rod. Don't break that finger!

If you are unable to make this work, in removing the center pin, for whatever reason, then I have one more suggestion.

If you can pull the center pin forward far enough, so the its internal spring is completely compressed, and then cut it off as close as possible to the top of the lower half of the extractor rod, you can get yourself some working room, to try to remove the broken end of the top half of the rod.

Hope some of this helps.

Regards, Mike Priwer

 

[Ralf Walt]

Thanks to all for your help. It's now in the soaking stage and I'll leave it alone for several days, maybe a week.

After that the first thing I'll attempt is just removing the extractor from the cylinder. I think the corrosion within the broken end has expanded the rod causing it to flare out a bit, just enough so I can't pull it out. Getting it out will give me room to work on it. Gotta be careful not to break that little finger.

Just salvaging the cylinder would be great since that's the only really expensive part. If the extractor and center pin are damaged they're less expensive.

Regarding the nomenclature I'm a newbie. I figured using the part names from the S&W diagrams would work. But then even S&W likes to change the names of things.

 

[mikepriwer]

Ralf

One thing you can do once a day, take the cylinder out of whatever it's soaking in, let the excess liquid drip off, and then try pulling the extractor star and rod out of the bottom of the cylinder. This is nothing mechanical holding it in - only some oxidation or gun-powder debris etc around the upper circumference of the bottom half of the extractor rod. It will come off eventually if you periodically keep trying to pull it out.

Regards, Mike Priwer

 

[Ralf Walt]

After soaking I worked it in and out for a while and the extractor finally came out. I think it was more than just oxidation or powder debris. I curled some sandpaper and wrapped it around the top edge to remove some more corrosion. I also used a dental pick to clear corrosion from the long slot (keyway?) at the broken off end where the corrosion was not allowing the little finger (key?) to pass through.

So now at least the extractor is out of the cylinder. The center pin is still seized up inside. More soaking ahead for that.

 

[steelslaver]

I really recommend the transmission fluid thinned with acetone bath for loosening stuff up. Another thing that will help is heat the rod assembly up to around 400f in your oven, then drop it back in your penetrating oil while it is still hot. After soaking another day or so get a piece of 1/4" or more thick brass or aluminum with a hole just larger than the center pin in it. With it sitting on the slightly open jaws of a vise you can slide the center pin over it and tap on the tip of the pin, then flip the assembly over over and tap the other way back and forth a bit, until it frees up and comes out. The piece inside the star has to move out towards the from star to shaft. You may need a small flat faced punch to tap it out. By tap I mean light blows with a small 4oz ball peen or tack hammer.

You really do need to salvage the star. First of all it is set up to time you cylinder correctly. Another can be set up to time right, but the star and the cylinder were match drilled for the 2 small alignment pins in cylinder. Even a star from another cylinder of the same vintage is very unlike to fit those pins perfectly. There are work around for that problem, but I prefer to avoid them.

The photo in that area is a bit blurry, but it appears the end of the center pin may be slightly mushroomed. Look at Mikepriwers photo and just above the spring There is a collar on the center pin and it must be hard against the threaded portion of the rod lift inside the star portion.

 

[shawn mccarver]

I read the thread on finding the model number for a revolver that doesn't have it inside the yoke. I'm guessing it's a model 14 but not sure.

Here is my info:

type: hand ejector
serial number: K 109xxx
S/N on the front gripstrap: no
right side of barrel: "38 S&W SPECIAL CTG"
left side of barrel: "SMITH & WESSON"
barrel length: 6 in
sights: adjustable
strain screw: yes
butt swivel: no
lanyard ring: no
screws: 5 (4 plus 1 trigger guard screw)
see images for numbers on frame under yoke

The threaded part of the ejector rod has broken off inside the cylinder. Any ideas on how to extract it?

Thanks

No model number. You have a Pre-14, known as a K38 Masterpiece. I will let one of the gunsmiths answer your other question.

 

[Ralf Walt]

removing broken extractor rod

Look at Mikepriwers photo and just above the spring There is a collar on the center pin and it must be hard against the threaded portion of the rod left inside the star portion.

Right, the center pin can't be removed until that broken part of the rod left inside is extracted. Very tough to get at without cutting and drilling the center pin out first.

 

[minconrevo]

A while back I had an extractor rod snap off at the threads, leaving nothing to grab hold of to remove the threaded portion of the rod remaining in the cylinder. After soaking the entire cylinder in Kroil for over a week, I came upon a potential fix. Placing a Torx tip tool inside the stub, pressing down firmly, then unscrewing it. Worked like a charm, with no damage. As other have mentioned, you must know for certain if you are dealing RH or LH thread. Double verify that based on your s/n. You might even have the s/n on the cylinder itself, under the extractor star.

You will need a replacement extractor rod, with correct thread pitch, as well as a center pin. Both are available and likely will need fitted. Might as well replace the extractor spring inside the cylinder while you are at it.

While doing these operations, insertion of fired cases in the cylinder, to support the star is a must. Likewise, the use of the special tool available to tighten the replacement extractor tool is essential to avoid damage to it.

Go slow and careful!

 

[Vtgw938]

Don't know if the OP had any success but I broke a rod in my 13-2. I soaked it for days in Kroil oil and was able to turn the broken threaded part out by screwing the broken rod back in getting the two to mate up and than unscrewed both the pieces of the rod as it it were one unit. I was amazed. Probably the broken off rod allowed more oil to get in.

 

[glowe]

It is old doublegun terminology. Cheaper shotguns had extractors that pushed the case up slightly so it could be extracted from the chamber by hand. Ejector guns propelled the case free of the chamber without shooter needing to do anything except open the action. The ejector star works to completely remove the spent cases from the gun without the need of a spring, but still fully ejects the brass.

 

[mikepriwer]

Ralf

Did this project get completed?

Mike Priwer

 

[Ralf Walt]

Ralf

Did this project get completed?

Mike Priwer

I tried soaking it in Kroil and later, the ATF/acetone mix for about 2 weeks. Still seized up. Since there's some renewed interest in the thread I think I'll give it another try soaking it much longer this time. I'd like to salvage it as both the cylinder and the star have serial numbers that match the frame.

 

[steelslaver]

If all ells fails, I would use a dremel and cutting wheel to make a shallow cut the extractor shaft about an 1/8" from the end. Not deep enough to cut into the ejector rod, but the extractor shaft, then turn the 1/8" piece of extractor shaft off and try to get a hold on the broken off piece or ejector rod that is left sticking out and turn it out. Another option would be to cut the center pin off flush and use a cut off wheel to make a slot across the end and try using a small screw driver to turn it out.

 

[mikepriwer]

Don't start cutting anything just yet. The long center pin is rounded at the extractor star. There is a little bit of it sticking out. You might be able to break the rust lock by hitting that rounded end with a 1" by 2" by 6 or 8" long piece of maple, or some other hardwood. If you've already taken the lower half of the extractor rod out of the cylinder, drill a hole in another piece of wood, large enough to push the extractor rod through . this will support the extractor star. A few moderate taps/hits may break the rust bond. If it moves at all, put a couple drops of Kroil on the other end, letting it run down the center pin. Then hit first one end, then the other, trying to get the center pin to move more. With some luck, the center pin will come out.

I have further comments about an alternative procedure, if this doesn't work.

If you can get the center pin out, I have some suggestions for getting the remaining threaded piece of the broken end of the upper half of the extractor rod, stuck in the lower half.

Mike Priwer

 

[steelslaver]

But, the center pin has a collar on it. The one that stops the small spring. It can't come out with the broken piece of rod stuck in the extractor shaft. I do like the idea of giving it some wacks to try to loosen things up.

 

[mikepriwer]

Yes - it won't come out, but maybe it can start to move it back and forth. Then he would be able to pull it up, compressing the spring, as far as it will go, and then cut it off. The spring should push it back down, leaving a gap, so that there would be space to work on getting out the broken piece.

The very bottom of the extractor has that removeable center piece via a small spanner wrench. If the center piece comes free, and if a spanner wrench will remove that bottom piece, I wonder if the center pin will drop out the bottom? If it's just a hardened bushing, the center pin may not come out that way.

Regards, Mike Priwer