I use acetone to remove the oily residue and then wax em.
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Renaissance wax VS Johnson Paste wax
- Thread starter Bajadoc
- Start date
rog8732
US Veteran
DWalt, when you describe going down to the quick-shop to get bread and milk, I bet it sounds like a NASA physicist detailing how they are going to guide in a rocket to the moon.
I sincerely envy your intellect, as well as your "word-smithing".
Springfan
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
This Horse is Just About Done For
Early on in this thread, some of us (OK, I was the only one) were intrigued by the idea of the acidity of preservative waxes. I think this was brought about by the Renaissance Wax product information indicating that Ren Wax is neutral and implying that this is good and that other waxes can’t make this claim. I postulated that acid waxes applied as preservatives to firearm surfaces might in contact with condensed moisture release this acidity and thus contribute to a corrosion reaction. I also postulated that, although I was not familiar with a test for acidity of waxes, a useful test might consist of a water extraction of a wax sample, followed by measurement of acidity of the water extract.
DWalt pretty much put this idea to rest, noting that the waxes are insoluble, thus the concept of the importance of their acidity as I was describing it was not valid. Point taken.
Still, I wondered about the meaning and importance of the acidity term described in the Ren Wax brochure. I was intrigued enough to do some Internet searching (remember we used to have to go to the library for this), I bought a PDF copy of ASTM D1386-10, Standard Test Method for Acid Number (Empirical) of Synthetic and Natural Waxes (it disappeared overnight from my iPhone), and I spoke via telephone with Mr. Dennis Blaine, the exclusive US agent for Renaissance Wax. This is what I learned.
First, as background, most pure waxes are chemical compounds known as esters: these are synthesized in nature in many living organisms, and in the laboratory by a reaction to remove water from a mixture of an organic acid (perhaps a long chain fatty acid) and an alcohol (perhaps a long chain fatty alcohol). The natural waxes contain mixtures of esters, organic acids, and other substances. Waxes are insoluble in water and may decompose in time to produce organic acids and other substances. The acid number of a wax, as determined by the ASTM method, involves first a solubilization of a known mass of the wax in an organic solvent mixture, followed by titration of the acid moieties with standardized potassium hydroxide solution. The method determines the free acid content of the wax. Conditions of the test are carefully chosen so as not to allow for cleavage of the ester linkage.
OK, so the acidity of a wax refers to the free organic acid content of the wax, under conditions of the ASTM test. What is the significance of this entity?
The ASTM method was not clear on the value or use of the acid number of a wax, only that it could affect its functionality. I could find nothing on the Internet stating that the acid number of a wax is important in its corrosion prevention. I have requested documentation of the importance of the acid number in this regard from Dennis Blaine and will provide this if it is germane.
So the bottom line is that the acidity of waxes refers to their organic acid content, and there is nothing in the technical literature that I was able to locate that indicates that this acidity in any way influences the ability of the waxes to provide barrier-type protection against corrosion. To quote DWalt, “any wax will be ok on any gun.”
I wanted to make this message brief, but let me pass along that one of the most interesting websites I found in this regard is that of the (German) Transport Information Service (look under corrosion protection). Two points I immediately found important: (1) the website points out that passive corrosion protection methods (this includes films presumably such as waxes) do not provide corrosion protection beyond their barrier properties, and that if these are lost, there is no further protection, whereas anti-corrosion agents provide a “very high quality protective film;” (2) when using dessicant bags to prevent corrosion, care must be taken to avoid the dessicant bags’ touching the metal to be preserved, “as the moist dessicant would promote corrosion.”
Personally, I’m going to do as manderson (post 24) suggests, and use both Eezox and a wax on my firearms in long term storage. And I’m going to make sure the little Dry Pak Mosture Absorbing Bags I’ve been using do not contact the firearms they are supposed to protect.
Early on in this thread, some of us (OK, I was the only one) were intrigued by the idea of the acidity of preservative waxes. I think this was brought about by the Renaissance Wax product information indicating that Ren Wax is neutral and implying that this is good and that other waxes can’t make this claim. I postulated that acid waxes applied as preservatives to firearm surfaces might in contact with condensed moisture release this acidity and thus contribute to a corrosion reaction. I also postulated that, although I was not familiar with a test for acidity of waxes, a useful test might consist of a water extraction of a wax sample, followed by measurement of acidity of the water extract.
DWalt pretty much put this idea to rest, noting that the waxes are insoluble, thus the concept of the importance of their acidity as I was describing it was not valid. Point taken.
Still, I wondered about the meaning and importance of the acidity term described in the Ren Wax brochure. I was intrigued enough to do some Internet searching (remember we used to have to go to the library for this), I bought a PDF copy of ASTM D1386-10, Standard Test Method for Acid Number (Empirical) of Synthetic and Natural Waxes (it disappeared overnight from my iPhone), and I spoke via telephone with Mr. Dennis Blaine, the exclusive US agent for Renaissance Wax. This is what I learned.
First, as background, most pure waxes are chemical compounds known as esters: these are synthesized in nature in many living organisms, and in the laboratory by a reaction to remove water from a mixture of an organic acid (perhaps a long chain fatty acid) and an alcohol (perhaps a long chain fatty alcohol). The natural waxes contain mixtures of esters, organic acids, and other substances. Waxes are insoluble in water and may decompose in time to produce organic acids and other substances. The acid number of a wax, as determined by the ASTM method, involves first a solubilization of a known mass of the wax in an organic solvent mixture, followed by titration of the acid moieties with standardized potassium hydroxide solution. The method determines the free acid content of the wax. Conditions of the test are carefully chosen so as not to allow for cleavage of the ester linkage.
OK, so the acidity of a wax refers to the free organic acid content of the wax, under conditions of the ASTM test. What is the significance of this entity?
The ASTM method was not clear on the value or use of the acid number of a wax, only that it could affect its functionality. I could find nothing on the Internet stating that the acid number of a wax is important in its corrosion prevention. I have requested documentation of the importance of the acid number in this regard from Dennis Blaine and will provide this if it is germane.
So the bottom line is that the acidity of waxes refers to their organic acid content, and there is nothing in the technical literature that I was able to locate that indicates that this acidity in any way influences the ability of the waxes to provide barrier-type protection against corrosion. To quote DWalt, “any wax will be ok on any gun.”
I wanted to make this message brief, but let me pass along that one of the most interesting websites I found in this regard is that of the (German) Transport Information Service (look under corrosion protection). Two points I immediately found important: (1) the website points out that passive corrosion protection methods (this includes films presumably such as waxes) do not provide corrosion protection beyond their barrier properties, and that if these are lost, there is no further protection, whereas anti-corrosion agents provide a “very high quality protective film;” (2) when using dessicant bags to prevent corrosion, care must be taken to avoid the dessicant bags’ touching the metal to be preserved, “as the moist dessicant would promote corrosion.”
Personally, I’m going to do as manderson (post 24) suggests, and use both Eezox and a wax on my firearms in long term storage. And I’m going to make sure the little Dry Pak Mosture Absorbing Bags I’ve been using do not contact the firearms they are supposed to protect.
rog8732
US Veteran
Eighty-four posts on gun waxing and two things are evident.
One: some do, and some don't.
Two: Most,(not all), posters would enjoy some good conversation about the worlds other most popular type of "waxing", that Brazilian kind.
One: some do, and some don't.
Two: Most,(not all), posters would enjoy some good conversation about the worlds other most popular type of "waxing", that Brazilian kind.
I've used "Pledge" furniture polish for years. I won't say it works better than JPW or Renwax, but it works pretty darn good. I've used it for years on shotguns, rifles, handguns. I started using it on shotgun stocks, then started wiping the spray over off on the metal, and noticed it made the metal "a bright shiney thing" too.
Works on bass boats for a quick picker upper too. We used it for years working boat shows.
Springfan
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
Pledge works great on guitar strings, too. One thing to remember about spray-ons is that if the chemical gets into the internal mechanism of the firearm, it might in time turn gummy and interfere with functioning.
That's why I started to wipe it on with a rag, then let it dry, and wipe it off again.
DWalt
Member
Not my intent to provide a chemistry lesson but organic (carboxylic) acids (a small percentage of which is contained naturally in Carnauba wax) are chemically nothing at all like strong mineral acids, such as hydrochloric, nitric, or sulfuric. They have one or more -COOH groups hanging on the end or somewhere in the middle of a long carbon chain, which has 20 to 30 carbon atoms. If the carbon chain is longer than about 5 carbon atoms, the molecule becomes insoluble in water. Therefore, it will not ionize, will not release hydrogen ions, and will not attack metals, or anything else. The acid number is meaningless in the context of protecting a gun from corrosion - it's mainly just a measure of the extent of carboxylic acid groups (-COOH) present on the carbon chain. Being petroleum-derived products, microcrystalline and paraffinic waxes have no carboxylic acid groups present in the first place. Think of those two as being very similar to what a plastic milk jug is made of, as that's about what they are. With that, I will make no further observations on the topic of Ren Wax vs. any other wax beyond what has already been said.
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Springfan
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
Me neither, but since it's after 5 PM here I will go have a martini to bid goodbye to the thread.
Andrew2105
Member
For a long time I have been waxing the guns with car wax. Whatever brand that I happen to have on hand. I know that there is a quantity of rubbing/polishing compound in these products. In particular I was using this on a Colt blued duty revolver that had some holster wear on it. The wax seemed to have two good aspects; first it would "clean" the exterior of any miniscule surface rust. Second the wax would protect the gun from the moisture and condensation that a "work gun" is exposed to.
And yes this was not a "museum piece". I'd have to believe that the car wax would be gentler than the very fine steel wool as recommended earlier.
Would I use the car wax on a NIB gun? probably not.
I believe that wax on a concealed carry gun would clean & protect the gun from body oils/perspiration & leather holster staining and as a bonus, lube the contact points in the holster. Sometimes the wax residue will accumulate in the engraved lettering on the gun, looks pretty classy to me & is easy to remove if you don't like it.
And yes this was not a "museum piece". I'd have to believe that the car wax would be gentler than the very fine steel wool as recommended earlier.
Would I use the car wax on a NIB gun? probably not.
I believe that wax on a concealed carry gun would clean & protect the gun from body oils/perspiration & leather holster staining and as a bonus, lube the contact points in the holster. Sometimes the wax residue will accumulate in the engraved lettering on the gun, looks pretty classy to me & is easy to remove if you don't like it.
raylan007
Member
The subtle touch of Ren Wax
If you want to avid the higher gloss finish that Mothers, Flitz, can't speak for Johnson's provides trying the Ren wax would be worth your while. It provides a beautiful luster especially on the older blued revolvers without all the glitz. I know at the end of the day it is to each his own but I like the fact that the Ren wax does the job but in a subtle way. Pictured is one coat without and heavy buffing and it took this carbona blued finish to just the place I wanted.
If you want to avid the higher gloss finish that Mothers, Flitz, can't speak for Johnson's provides trying the Ren wax would be worth your while. It provides a beautiful luster especially on the older blued revolvers without all the glitz. I know at the end of the day it is to each his own but I like the fact that the Ren wax does the job but in a subtle way. Pictured is one coat without and heavy buffing and it took this carbona blued finish to just the place I wanted.
Attachments
I have no idea on the merits of JPW vs. RW. I will say that I have a very old can of JPW that I bought a long time ago and is app 1/2 full now that I mainly apply with an old toothbrush on our American Legion Post rifles (both metal and stocks) after using them at ceremonies, etc. I lightly smear after use and don't wipe off until next time we use them so the wax has certainly dried by then but wipes off easily.
I also have a newly acquired jar of RW that I mainly now use on some personal guns. Too early to tell but I've not had problems with either and don't anticipate any.
I also have a newly acquired jar of RW that I mainly now use on some personal guns. Too early to tell but I've not had problems with either and don't anticipate any.
DWalt
Member
That's not a bad idea - wax before storage. Buff it up when you get ready to use it. That would likely leave a heavier and more protective wax coating.
DWalt,
It's worked for me over the years. On the Legion rifles, I wipe down when removing from the safe. We've been caught in the rain before so depending on the weather, I may not wipe much at all. Wax buildup has never been a problem and neither has rust. I have pulled the stocks before and coated everything but mostly just the exposed surfaces.
ETA- A note about the Legion rifles:
They're 1903's, not M1's. We talked about trading for M1's but our Post is named after two local WW1 vets KIA in France, so we thought it fitting to keep the 03's. Plus, they're the Mk3's with cutouts for Pederson device. Kinda different and cool as most vet groups around here have M1's.
My point is they're not autos so lube hasn't been too much of an issue.
It's worked for me over the years. On the Legion rifles, I wipe down when removing from the safe. We've been caught in the rain before so depending on the weather, I may not wipe much at all. Wax buildup has never been a problem and neither has rust. I have pulled the stocks before and coated everything but mostly just the exposed surfaces.
ETA- A note about the Legion rifles:
They're 1903's, not M1's. We talked about trading for M1's but our Post is named after two local WW1 vets KIA in France, so we thought it fitting to keep the 03's. Plus, they're the Mk3's with cutouts for Pederson device. Kinda different and cool as most vet groups around here have M1's.
My point is they're not autos so lube hasn't been too much of an issue.
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Where do you buy REN wax? Local gun store or do auto parts stores carry it? Thankyou.
Try E-Bay. ////////
got mine from brownells but think midway has it too.
Midway has it .This is a Musuem wax not an automotive wax.
Florida J Frame
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Do you want to use a wax that has been chosen by the finest museums in the world or one that a chemical company produces for wood floors? What are your firearms worth?
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