StatesRightist
Member
I know, you are right, it's a farce.
I'm just saying if you want to change it, it Hss to be a 2 way street for me to support it.
Response from Tim Ryan NE OH congressman regarding my opposition to AWB
- Thread starter gpagpa
- Start date
I know, you are right, it's a farce.
I'm just saying if you want to change it, it Hss to be a 2 way street for me to support it.
Every thing Hitler did ,our new 'selected king ' and savior is doing.
'Class war 'and then increase the taxes. Give things away free like wellfare and food stamps , and cell phones!! The rich will have to pay.!!!
Demonize the gun owner and by all means register the guns. Than take away the guns because the 'New World Order 'wants this. Watch and wait for the Homeland security to break down the your door at 3am to take your guns and take you away to a FEMA camp. Kill or be killed!
Why should my father only have the privlege of prison camp for five years, can not his son have the same fun? The Obama troops beware.
Why is not the 'Gay community ' held accountable for the PENN STATE abuse.?
Why is not the ETOH companies held accountable for all DUI's and car crashes and domestic abuse.?
People are buying ammo for war . Are you ready.?
Are you a prepared American who will fight for the second ammendment.
This is like the town halls and beer pubs in 'early america ' pre revolutionary war. The British tried to take the guns away also.!
The dollor will drop and ,**** will hit the fan soon.
Germany -pre Nazi -was just a test to see if it will work. Wach out!
'Class war 'and then increase the taxes. Give things away free like wellfare and food stamps , and cell phones!! The rich will have to pay.!!!
Demonize the gun owner and by all means register the guns. Than take away the guns because the 'New World Order 'wants this. Watch and wait for the Homeland security to break down the your door at 3am to take your guns and take you away to a FEMA camp. Kill or be killed!
Why should my father only have the privlege of prison camp for five years, can not his son have the same fun? The Obama troops beware.
Why is not the 'Gay community ' held accountable for the PENN STATE abuse.?
Why is not the ETOH companies held accountable for all DUI's and car crashes and domestic abuse.?
People are buying ammo for war . Are you ready.?
Are you a prepared American who will fight for the second ammendment.
This is like the town halls and beer pubs in 'early america ' pre revolutionary war. The British tried to take the guns away also.!
The dollor will drop and ,**** will hit the fan soon.
Germany -pre Nazi -was just a test to see if it will work. Wach out!
Moonman
Member
kresnick,
I don't think you joined the right FORUM.
TROLLS are not tolerated here nor are EXTREMISM.
The BIG GORILLA or some MOD will be looking into you!
I don't think you joined the right FORUM.
TROLLS are not tolerated here nor are EXTREMISM.
The BIG GORILLA or some MOD will be looking into you!
jtpur
Member
Maybe we should ban private sales of books! After all what is a right unless we prove to the Government we are sane, rational and law abiding. I know, let's just ban the sale of books that described how to build and defuse Bombs. After all only cops need this information and private citizens have no need to know about these things. We ought to ban private automobile sales and conduct background checks on car buyers to make sure they are not drunks, reckless drivers or don't carry insurance. Oh heck scrap the car idea because their is no constitutional right to own a car. Besides, why should anyone trust me as a private citizen to exercise common sense in who I sell a gun too. No it takes some magical knowledge that only the government can posses.
I'm sorry I find these attitudes by people who claim to,support our rights give me nausea.
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kbm6893
Member
So what you are saying is we need to compromise? me too. And there's a way around it. Get rid of the individual state permits and institute a federal one. So if you want to make a private sale, go for it, BUT a record must be kepp and NOT turned into the government unless some cop comes knocking and wants ti know why your pistol turned up at a crime scene somewhere. THAT'S when you pull it out and say "Go ask this guy. i sold it to him".
We can't deny that there are MANY unscrupulous sellers out there who know full well that the person they are selling to is either definetely barred from owning, or probably is. And there is NO risk for that seller under current laws. We've all seen the videos and seen the scuzzy looking guy standing behind the girl buying the gun at the gunshow. The Colombine shooters had there 18 year old friend buy their guns at a gunshow. They specifically targeted private sellers because the girl didn't want her name attached to the sale. Those two clowns asked all the questions and fondled the guns, and then the girl bought the guns. Know what the seller said when he was found? "I didn't know she wasn't the real buyer" And he would have gotten away with it if Colombine wasn't national news. So if they used those guns in some stickup somewhere he would never have been found out.
And you know what? You or I aren't going to be able to stop it. The NRA has less than 10 percent of the gun owners as membership and onlu about 1% of the population as members. The recent shooting created a spike in membership, but that will pass. There ARE going to be changes coming, and unless the NRA drops the "what part of shall not be infringed do you not understand?" mantra, they're gonna lose. I'm a lifetime member and I look at them as being unrealistic. How do you think the average voter does?
And this is 2013 America, not 1939 Poland. Not the same thing. I'm not worried about the government putting me in a concentration camp. Sorry, but I think that's paranoia. My AR is for my enjoyment and for the possible civil unrest scenario. It's not gonna hold off the government troops with tanks, missles, and helicopters.
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Moonman
Member
The first thing that really NEEDS BANNED.
POLITICAL FACT FINDING "JUNKETS".
POLITICAL FACT FINDING "JUNKETS".
Harrison
US Veteran
Pure psyco babble. It seems that his answer to national mental health problems is to throw more taxpayer money at it. Money isn't the problem. Federal medical privacy laws, and other laws disallowing forced treatment, or institulization are a problem that won't be solved by more money. A person has to be in a catonic coma, before they can be hospitalized against their will. Of courese once they kill one or more people, than they can be treated for their illness.
kbm6893
Member
Funny how ardent supporters of the 2nd Amendment not being quite so enthusiastic about the 1st Amendment, isn't it? If I don;t totally agree with you, I make you sick?
And you are a cop. You ARE the government. Don;t think for a second that you aren't.
james56
US Veteran
"I do agree we need to make sure the loonies are identified. However, there also needs to be an option once they are declared fit, for them to be able to get a gun. I'm thinking of PTSD and soldiers here, mainly"
What about the LEO's, Pilots, Nurses, Doctors, Kids from abusive home environments and so on that have PTSD? Why is it always the "Soldiers" with PTSD... I'm really getting tried of us Vet's getting shafted. I just want to know how many of you really in the end if and when it comes down to to it cave like the UK gun owner's did and Germans did 1938 or so, or fight....
I served and fought for our Country and Our Constitution and our way of life like many others here have and by God I'm not going down without a fight!!!
"Yes from my cold hands"
Μολὼν λαβέ
What about the LEO's, Pilots, Nurses, Doctors, Kids from abusive home environments and so on that have PTSD? Why is it always the "Soldiers" with PTSD... I'm really getting tried of us Vet's getting shafted. I just want to know how many of you really in the end if and when it comes down to to it cave like the UK gun owner's did and Germans did 1938 or so, or fight....
I served and fought for our Country and Our Constitution and our way of life like many others here have and by God I'm not going down without a fight!!!
"Yes from my cold hands"
Μολὼν λαβέ
EvilBetty
Member
I liked the car analogy above... I'm not asked to vet a potential buyer of my used car to see if he has a current license, a suspension, excessive DUI's... I'm also not looking to ban powerful trucks and sportscars on the grounds that they have no sporting purpose and that 100,000's are killed by them every year...
The private sale rules were never intended to eliminate the chance of any criminal or mentally ill person from buying a gun from you. Only to urge sellers to have their guard up and use common sense.
I don't think anyone one here is going to sell a gun to a guy that meets you and is babbling about a planned hit, or Alf being the 2nd coming and talking to Jesus that morning in his Alphabets. THAT is the whole point. We are not and should not be expected to prevent a gun being transferred into the hands of an individual that you have had normal dealings with and little hairs do not stand up on the back of your neck.
If the ATF made it easy for us to call a 800 number and enter the buyers drivers license number for ex., to get a GO / NOGO for a POTENTIAL buyer, I might be Ok with that. Anything else is overly burdensome and overly prying.
The private sale rules were never intended to eliminate the chance of any criminal or mentally ill person from buying a gun from you. Only to urge sellers to have their guard up and use common sense.
I don't think anyone one here is going to sell a gun to a guy that meets you and is babbling about a planned hit, or Alf being the 2nd coming and talking to Jesus that morning in his Alphabets. THAT is the whole point. We are not and should not be expected to prevent a gun being transferred into the hands of an individual that you have had normal dealings with and little hairs do not stand up on the back of your neck.
If the ATF made it easy for us to call a 800 number and enter the buyers drivers license number for ex., to get a GO / NOGO for a POTENTIAL buyer, I might be Ok with that. Anything else is overly burdensome and overly prying.
Regarding private sales... Rather than going with a cumbersome state/national permit system, why not just require all private transactions go through an FFL? Honest FFL holders won't gouge you on transfer/NICS check fees, and you're essentially protecting yourself from any potential liability.
I also agree wholeheartedly with making sure those declared metally ill don't "slip through the cracks" and actually get entered into the system. However, Lanza wasn't at any point declared mentally ill, nor was he ever diagnosed with a mental illness; Asperger's is a developmental disorder. He had no known history of violence; he just "snapped" one fateful day and here we are now. I half wonder if he was taking SSRIs. Assuming that he was, herein lies the rub... Do we report people who are being prescribed these drugs to the database but risk encroaching on patient privacy? Or do we protect their privacy but risk having another Newtown?
I realize this is veering way off topic from the original post, but the deeper I look into this, the more questions I'm left with and the more frightened I am that the knee-jerk response to this tragedy by a group of over-emotional elites in Congress and the White House is to eradicate a civil liberty which is clearly enumerated in the Bill of Rights.
I also agree wholeheartedly with making sure those declared metally ill don't "slip through the cracks" and actually get entered into the system. However, Lanza wasn't at any point declared mentally ill, nor was he ever diagnosed with a mental illness; Asperger's is a developmental disorder. He had no known history of violence; he just "snapped" one fateful day and here we are now. I half wonder if he was taking SSRIs. Assuming that he was, herein lies the rub... Do we report people who are being prescribed these drugs to the database but risk encroaching on patient privacy? Or do we protect their privacy but risk having another Newtown?
I realize this is veering way off topic from the original post, but the deeper I look into this, the more questions I'm left with and the more frightened I am that the knee-jerk response to this tragedy by a group of over-emotional elites in Congress and the White House is to eradicate a civil liberty which is clearly enumerated in the Bill of Rights.
kbm6893
Member
Lanza wasn't, because his mother had never taken the steps to do it, and she should have. Know why she didn't? Because she's a mom and most parents don't have the heart to do it, and many will even fight tooth and nail to prevent it. But the Aurora, Arizona, and Virginia Tech shooters were.
And while MAYBE people HERE (I don't know everyone here and neither does anyone else) might not sell to somebody they felt was mentally ill or had malicious intentions, there ARE people who do. we've all seen the videos. And the problem now is that there is NO RISK to them. Even if the buyer DOES let him know, there is no proof that ever happened, so if the shooter gets caught and tells the cops "I told the seller i was unable to legally buy a gun", it's his word against a murderer. very least, you have reasonable doubt. The word of a killer isn't going to get the cops an arrest warrant, and even if they DID get one, it's not surviving a grand jury.
But do we know that for a fact? It's clear Adam Lanza was definitely "unwell," but we're short on information regarding what meds he was on (if any), what treatment he was undergoing, and how his mother was handling things.
Should we argue for laws requiring you to disclose that a family member was undergoing psychiatric treatment or was prescribed psychoactive drugs, which carry the penalty of criminal and civil liabilities for non-compliance?
If anything, our discussion is demonstrating that Biden and his ship of fools aren't even scratching the surface in their "investigation" into the root cause(s) of incidents like Newtown.
So just require that all private firearm sales be brokered by an FFL and be done with it. With the exception of states like your native PA with its State Police database for example, there won't be a "firearms registry" which those with ill intent can use as a tool for confiscation. It also protects you from liability in the event that the odd person does slip through the "safety net." (e.g. "I ensured that a background check was performed on this individual before I sold them this firearm, thus fulfilling my obligation to perform my due diligence. Here is my supporting documentation from the FFL as proof.")
Granted, it's feels about as asinine as labelling a jar of peanut butter with "Warning: Contains Peanuts," but it does keep the lawyers at bay.
kbm6893
Member
Sounds good to me. Let all private sales go through an FFL. But then you'll here people say "Why should I have to spend $20 to transfer a gun?". These are the people who spend $600 on an ACOG. And while I am not made of money, I have ZERO problems spending 20 bucks to transfer a gun if it insures that the gun is going to a legal buyer.
No. This is NOT a good thing at all, and I think it may have been proposed and NRA shot it down?
In any event, here is why.
If the FEDS hold your right to carry, it can be taken quickly and more easily than your state. IN one sweeping motion they take EVERYONES rights in the Country to carry away! I probably am not explaining this clear enough, but it is NOT a good idea.
Someone with better understanding, please explain so none of us fall into thinking this would be a good idea.
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Moonman
Member
NO FEDERAL CARRY PERIOD.
The STATES have this authority and THEY WOULD NEVER FORFEIT THEIR STATES RIGHTS HERE.
The STATES have this authority and THEY WOULD NEVER FORFEIT THEIR STATES RIGHTS HERE.
Joewisc
US Veteran
There's an old joke about the second coming of Christ. The papal secretary bursts into the Pope's office and says, "Your Holiness - Jesus has returned; he's out there in the Piazza San Pietro riding on a donkey and wowing the crowd." And the Pope replies, "Quick, everybody - look busy."
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The "do-something" politicians are scrambling to look busy.
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The "do-something" politicians are scrambling to look busy.
Moonman
Member
If politicians need to look busy,
How about trying to work on the DEBT and SOCIAL SECURITY issues?
ROME IS BURNING, and these politicos FROTH AT THE MOUTH AND DANCE AROUND.
How about trying to work on the DEBT and SOCIAL SECURITY issues?
ROME IS BURNING, and these politicos FROTH AT THE MOUTH AND DANCE AROUND.
jtpur
Member
Right your views make me sick. I never indicated you could not or should not have them, and I,d even defend your right to speak them even though they make me sick. But don't honk for a moment that Even though I worked for the government I trust the government. many of my brother/sister officers often abused their power, it is very easy to do. We have these nice shinny compliance things called badges and guns and sometimes the power of the office corrupts and the powerful abuse their power.
But never confuse me with someone would ever assist the government in confiscation of guns. And don't think for a second that I have anything in common with Chiefs who rant about guns, or want more bans. I want citizens to be lawfully armed to protect themselves from thugs and yes from thugs who wear badges and guns too!!!!!!
owenwd54
Member
Joe Biden In Charge
Do they really think that Joe Biden will give gun owners a fair shake and that he could come up with a solution to this or any other problem in a couple weeks. He has been in Washington about all his life and has not done a dam thing but shaft the American people .If Joe can do this why has he not done any thing for all the people who are out of work. He helped give our jobs away and regulate and tax our jobs away.
The great one wanted Joe to look like he was doing something ..
Do they really think that Joe Biden will give gun owners a fair shake and that he could come up with a solution to this or any other problem in a couple weeks. He has been in Washington about all his life and has not done a dam thing but shaft the American people .If Joe can do this why has he not done any thing for all the people who are out of work. He helped give our jobs away and regulate and tax our jobs away.
The great one wanted Joe to look like he was doing something ..
