enfield
US Veteran
Based on recent testing (I'll give a citation later if I find it), I'm no longer carrying Remington Express FMJ in my .380's. I now carry Fiocchi Extrema XTP's which are reported to penetrate and expand.
Reviving a question: 380 FMJ or 380 JHP?
- Thread starter Goffman
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BreakerDan
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I would have to load up with premium quality
hardball for penetration and reliability.
Shot placement is what matters.
hardball for penetration and reliability.
Shot placement is what matters.
gunlovingirl
Member
I carry Corbon DPX.
What was the result of the test that led you away from the Remingtons?
enfield
US Veteran
12 inches + penetration in ballistic gel plus expansion.
scattershot
Member
The article in Gun Tests is copyrighted material, but here's a recap:
The test was done shooting into plastic jugs filled with water at 10 feet.
Grade A Fiocchi 95 gr FMJ, with 14" penetration
grade A Speer Gold Dot 90 gr jhp, rated as a best buy, 13.5"
Grade B+ Federal Hydra Shok 90 gr jhp, 13.5"
Grade B+ Remington Golden Saber 102 gr 12.5"
Winchester SXT and PMC Starfire got grades of C, with 9 and 13" penetration, respectively.
As a control, Rem 125 gr jhp .38 special was tested, and penetration was 14", fired from a 2" Colt Detective Special.
All of the hollowpoints expanded well, although several testers said that they would load the solids and hope for the best.
Hope that helps.
The test was done shooting into plastic jugs filled with water at 10 feet.
Grade A Fiocchi 95 gr FMJ, with 14" penetration
grade A Speer Gold Dot 90 gr jhp, rated as a best buy, 13.5"
Grade B+ Federal Hydra Shok 90 gr jhp, 13.5"
Grade B+ Remington Golden Saber 102 gr 12.5"
Winchester SXT and PMC Starfire got grades of C, with 9 and 13" penetration, respectively.
As a control, Rem 125 gr jhp .38 special was tested, and penetration was 14", fired from a 2" Colt Detective Special.
All of the hollowpoints expanded well, although several testers said that they would load the solids and hope for the best.
Hope that helps.
I only have a Mustang left in 380. I see no advantage over this down too a 22 mag. No matter what the math says. The ruger is the best 380 for size that I have seen. I have two Kel Techs in 32. Summer gear. I may Purchase a 380 ruger next time just because they hit somewhat harder. But it is talking and placement that will save your a@@ In either caliber. Below 9mm I consider everything hardball or solids. 9MM I carry 147 LE Winchester Ranger. Look at seller Bellet hard ball on anything less
Interesting test results. The tests I've seen using ballistic gelatin put the FMJ ammo (American Eagle and Winchester WB) well ahead of any of the tested JHP rounds (including Speer, Federal, Remington, etc.) in terms of penetration...something on the order of TWICE the penetration. It's odd that the advantage of FMJs found in gel doesn't hold up in water. I imagine it has something to do with the higher viscocity of the gel acting on the higher velocity and high profile of JHP projectices to a greater extent than on the lower velocity and low profile FMJ projectiles.
I'm still torn between the two and may end up carrying FMJ/TMJ in the dead of winter, and JHP the rest of the time. Odds are good that I'll never need a pistol for anything other than a trip to the range, but, if I did neet it, I'm not sure that the 380 JHP is going to stop a determined attacked any faster than a 380 FMJ. It just doesn't seem like much is gained with the JHP. Even among the elite of the 380 JHPs, the good penetrators exhibit (generally) minimal expansion (e.g., Speer Gold Dot), and the poor penetrators exhibit great expansion and abysmal penetration (e.g., Corbon DPX). In the case of the former, I may as well be loading FMJ because you get darn near the same result. In the case of the latter, I *ought* to be loading FMJ because I wouldn't want to count on a well-expanded bulled that penetrated only five or six inches in ballistic gel.
In contrast, I carry the best expanding round I can find in 357 Mag because (a) plenty of penetration still is achieved, and (b) I don't want to see a bullet come flying out the back of anyone, including a determined attacker (i.e., overpenetration).
bmcgilvray
Member
I'm still carrying Santa Barbara ammunition from the surplus supplies imported about 5 years ago for the infrequent times I find that I need to carry a .380 pistol.
This ammunition features a flat nosed (nose is actually slightly concave) bullet weighing 95 grains and giving a muzzle velocity of 1030 fps from my short-barreled Kel Tec P3AT. Its probably in the realm of "+P" in pressure but the little pistol has digested several boxes of it and seems none the worse for wear.
I'm uninterested in any sort of .380 ACP hollow point ammunition. I want penetration above all.
This ammunition features a flat nosed (nose is actually slightly concave) bullet weighing 95 grains and giving a muzzle velocity of 1030 fps from my short-barreled Kel Tec P3AT. Its probably in the realm of "+P" in pressure but the little pistol has digested several boxes of it and seems none the worse for wear.
I'm uninterested in any sort of .380 ACP hollow point ammunition. I want penetration above all.
That's how I carry in my Ruger LCP, I start with a HP and next is a FMJ and so on with alternating HP and Ball rounds.
Tycer
Member
Did a couple of penetration tests on the shoulder and chest of my little whitetail harvest with my P3AT and Winchester white box from ten feet. Complete pass through one rib and the heart on a broadside and 6" penetration depth through the shoulder joint into the heart. The wound channel through the heart was 5/8" broadside and 3/4" on the shoulder one with the shoulder bullet holding together completely with little obturation.
This is exactly what I'd hoped for and is why I carry the WW white box in the pocket gun. That and I can shoot boatloads of them without breaking the bank.
This is exactly what I'd hoped for and is why I carry the WW white box in the pocket gun. That and I can shoot boatloads of them without breaking the bank.
In my LCP the 1st three rounds are Speer Gold Dot and if that won't work the next 4 are Buffalo Bore Hard Cast Flat Points. I would like to carry +P's but, I've been warned off at too many places
BarbC
Member
I haven't actually had to shoot anybody with my KelTec P3AT (carrying a mix of Gold Dot and Golden Saber and Hornady XTP), but my brother-in-law actually shot a mugger with his KelTec P3AT with two rounds of Corbon DPX into his upper left chest and it took that big guy right down.
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Thanks for the report, Barb. It's encouraging to hear a report of a 380 stopping an attack successfully. One hears so many fables about the 380 round simply bouncing off an attacker, as if he's a super villain or something.
One last question:
I read somewhere that Blazer Brass is the highest velocity, standard pressure FMJ round in short-barrel "real world" chronograph tests. We do know for certain that there is variation in velocity across the different brands of FMJ rounds (any of the various websites that list tests conducted by users confirms it), despite the fact that pretty much all major manufacturers list the same velocity for their FMJ rounds. Can anyone confirm the report that I read about Blazer Brass, or maybe just tell me where I read it (I should have bookmarked it when I found it)?
I read somewhere that Blazer Brass is the highest velocity, standard pressure FMJ round in short-barrel "real world" chronograph tests. We do know for certain that there is variation in velocity across the different brands of FMJ rounds (any of the various websites that list tests conducted by users confirms it), despite the fact that pretty much all major manufacturers list the same velocity for their FMJ rounds. Can anyone confirm the report that I read about Blazer Brass, or maybe just tell me where I read it (I should have bookmarked it when I found it)?
In my old Beretta 1934 with it's 3 7/16" barrel Blazer Brass averages
930 fps, Remington UMC gives 957 fps, and Federal AE gives 928 fps.
Realize that all ammo will vary from lot to lot. Win flat point is under
900 fps.
930 fps, Remington UMC gives 957 fps, and Federal AE gives 928 fps.
Realize that all ammo will vary from lot to lot. Win flat point is under
900 fps.
DWalt
Member
FMJ vs Expanding in .380
There's no definitive answer possible. A number of the so-called "Experts" seem to believe that FMJ is the best choice (not only in the .380 but also the .32 and .25) considering both its improved functional reliability and its greater penetration capability (though maybe not by a lot). It's probably too much to expect that bullet expansion with these lighter and slower-moving expanding bullets, if it occurs at all after passing through clothing, etc., will add any significant additional "Knock Down" capability vs. FMJ. Plus, if you ever HAVE to use one of the little guys, it will probably be at very close range where putting your shots into a BG's vital areas is easier than at a distance, and that's more important than a little bullet expansion.
In short, if one of the high-priced .380 loads makes you more confident in a dark alley, fine, go ahead and use it. Just don't expect miraculous performance.
Me? I use FMJ only. I carry a .25 ACP due to its minuscule size and ease of concealment. The only 100% functionally-reliable .25 round I have found after a lot of testing is the Blazer aluminum-cased FMJ. Of course, I'm not out prowling around in ghettos of large cities and other dangerous locations either, and always avoid going anyplace I shouldn't be, either armed or unarmed.
There's no definitive answer possible. A number of the so-called "Experts" seem to believe that FMJ is the best choice (not only in the .380 but also the .32 and .25) considering both its improved functional reliability and its greater penetration capability (though maybe not by a lot). It's probably too much to expect that bullet expansion with these lighter and slower-moving expanding bullets, if it occurs at all after passing through clothing, etc., will add any significant additional "Knock Down" capability vs. FMJ. Plus, if you ever HAVE to use one of the little guys, it will probably be at very close range where putting your shots into a BG's vital areas is easier than at a distance, and that's more important than a little bullet expansion.
In short, if one of the high-priced .380 loads makes you more confident in a dark alley, fine, go ahead and use it. Just don't expect miraculous performance.
Me? I use FMJ only. I carry a .25 ACP due to its minuscule size and ease of concealment. The only 100% functionally-reliable .25 round I have found after a lot of testing is the Blazer aluminum-cased FMJ. Of course, I'm not out prowling around in ghettos of large cities and other dangerous locations either, and always avoid going anyplace I shouldn't be, either armed or unarmed.
