Revolver Action Job Question

[Pdxrealtor]

Would a roll pin punch work?

 

[armorer951]

Accuracy is required

 

[armorer951]

Yoke facing reamers are also available......

YOKE FACING REAMER | Brownells


This is an expensive tool. I have one you can borrow if you don't want to invest in one.

 

[Pdxrealtor]

Accuracy is required

Ya.... grasping at straws I guess.

I was just reading about replacement yokes and it seems they should be fitted. However, my extra yoke from my 686+ seems to work OK. Am I missing something?

 

[Pdxrealtor]

Yoke facing reamers are also available......

YOKE FACING REAMER | Brownells


This is an expensive tool. I have one you can borrow if you don't want to invest in one.

Thanks for that offer. I may take you up on it. Would it be wise to first grab the alignment tool and see where I end up? If that tool allows me to solve the problem I wouldn't need to ream it or is it wise to do both? I could see doing it both ways I suppose.

I have the alignment tool in my cart.

Could you suggest a couple files that will allow me to get in the tight spots, such as the ratchet areas and any others that may arise?

I managed to use a diamond file I had, but would like something more 'hardy'.

See pics below. I used Dykem to make sure I wasn't touching the vertical face of the ratchet. Before and afters..... I also knocked down the edges of the ratchet faces to aid in trigger return. I don't know why this cylinder had such buggered ratchets. None of my others are even close to being buggered at all, let alone to any degree.

 

[armorer951]

Yokes are numbered and follow the gun frame through the assembly, fitting, and finishing process. Occasionally they will mechanically work in another frame, however, some purely cosmetic issues may be evident...say at the corners or edges for instance.

 

[Pdxrealtor]

I think I prefer to fix mine. I will order that alignment tool. Do you think I need the reamer at the same time?

Also if you, or anyone else, can recommend a file or two from Brownells that'd be great. Something for tight spots, safe edges, and another universal that would come in handy working on smiths.

Tomcatt - I looked for what you described and nothing came up.

 

[armorer951]

You do not need the facing reamer in order to verify that the yoke in in proper alignment. If you don't have Kuhnhausen's shop manual, I would suggest you purchase the book. It is a valuable resource, both for training and referral.

For detail work, I would suggest high quality needle files. Brownells and other vendors sell many different shapes and sizes. The shapes and type of cut will depend on the type of work you will be doing. They are so expensive, I usually buy them as I need them and in the shape and size required for each particular job. Nicholson is the best brand I have found as far as quality is concerned, but there are many other brands available.

 

[Pdxrealtor]

Thanks Armorer - you're not joking. I found myself looking at some needle file kit.... went to add it to the cart and it was 339.00!

I'll look for some individual needle files. The most important thing is having the edges free from file material, and I'm not sure the proper name for that. I suppose I could always grind the file material off the sides.

I could also get a couple extra stones and grind them to size. I used to polish metal/plastic injection molds. A lot of the EDM, which use a high quality india stone (aluminum oxide) and we'd grind stones so thin you'd eventually grind 10 because you knew one wouldn't last long. Not because it would get used, because it would break. They also had to be quite small for the ultra-sonic machine.

I know if I had a couple stones to waste this time around I would have been out in the shop on the bench grinder.

Anyways.... Looking to make a worthwhile purchase from Brownell's. Discounts start at 99.00 or more!

Oh ya... the manual you speak of. Does it have info the Jerry Mick. video does not? I don't do well with reading. I'm a visual learner so I'm real hesitant to buy that book even though I've heard about it over and over.

 

[armorer951]

There are many illustrations and photographs in Kuhnhausen's books, and he is very easy to read. I would say that if you planning to work on your own revolvers, and want to learn more about them, the book is one of the best, if not the best out there. Kuhnhausen books do cover many details that are not is the JM videos. If you don't like the 'Shop Manual', send it back for a refund. Brownells will give you your money back..... as long as you don't spill a cup of coffee on it.

Brownells sells many fine tools. The best two 6" finishing/polishing stones at Brownells are these........I wish I had bought them when they first came out twenty or more years ago, but I couldn't afford them. They are perfectly square, and the edges are so sharp that they will cut you if you're not careful.

6" X 1/2" X 1/2" CERAMIC STONES | Brownells


They also sell the Norton 6" x 1/2" x 1/2"medium and fine India stones, which are indispensible.

6" X 1/2" X 1/2" INDIA STONE | Brownells

 

[bountyhunter]

Perhaps you could degrease and mark the parts with Dykem or Sharpie to determine exactly where the contact is before potential damage is done to the extractor. (empty casings inserted)

Seems it would make better sense and be much less expensive to go through the "modify/damage/replace" scenario of inexperience with a potentially slightly oversized hand than to pay someone to replace a ruined extractor.

The sharpie is how you do it. As for tiny files: if you don't have them, I have used the edge of a tiny steel 6" ruler with 600 sandpaper wrapped on it. If you don't know how or don't have tools, I would not cut on the extractor.

But cutting ratchets is the LAST thing, always work the cheapest part first which is to install an oversized hand. You carefully measure carryup and number the cylinder holes to determine which is the loosest. Then fit the hand width to that one (loosest) and gently shave the other ratchets to get proper clearance and they will all be balanced. Do the fitting using only the trigger and cylinder and don't force it. A standard hand is about .092 - .094" and an oversized hand is about .099 - 0.100". You stone the left edge (viewed from rear) to fit it.

 

[MygunisaS&Wrevolver]

You could also use a range rod/plug gauge to check for proper barrel/cylinder alignment. If you get no rod ticks or rubs then I doubt that you have any issues with the crane. This is the first tool that I would buy from Brownells. It is a very handy tool and is not that expensive. When you replace or refit parts that could effect alignment such as the hand, cranes, ratchet and cylinder stop, it is a must. The alignment issue is critical for proper operation, accuracy and safety. As indicated by others, Kuhnhausens book is a must before you start on any of this stuff. I also think he has a video. I think Brownells also sells it. But all said and done, I still think that you would be money and time ahead to contact S&W Perf Center and have them resolve the issues. Good luck!

 

[bountyhunter]

I don't remember the Kuhnhausen shop manual on SW Revos covering how to fit hands and balance ratchets but maybe my memory escapes me.

 

[MygunisaS&Wrevolver]

The Kuhnhausen S&W shop manual, 5th edition, pages 97 thru 99 and 108 thru 109 covers it completely.

 

[Pdxrealtor]

After reading around I see this file (link below) mentioned as coming in the S&W armorer kit, and it being used for filing ratchets. While I don't want to file ratchets, I do (if there is a need) want to file the face surface directly next to the ratchet. Will this file work for that ?

SWISS PATTERN BARRETTE FILES | Brownells

Here is a picture of before and after. I bought this used, so I have no idea how those bugars got there but they could be felt through the trigger.

 

[Pdxrealtor]

There are many illustrations and photographs in Kuhnhausen's books, and he is very easy to read. I would say that if you planning to work on your own revolvers, and want to learn more about them, the book is one of the best, if not the best out there. Kuhnhausen books do cover many details that are not is the JM videos. If you don't like the 'Shop Manual', send it back for a refund. Brownells will give you your money back..... as long as you don't spill a cup of coffee on it.

Brownells sells many fine tools. The best two 6" finishing/polishing stones at Brownells are these........I wish I had bought them when they first came out twenty or more years ago, but I couldn't afford them. They are perfectly square, and the edges are so sharp that they will cut you if you're not careful.

6" X 1/2" X 1/2" CERAMIC STONES | Brownells


They also sell the Norton 6" x 1/2" x 1/2"medium and fine India stones, which are indispensible.

6" X 1/2" X 1/2" INDIA STONE | Brownells

Would you use the ceramic in place of the india? I have both of those india stones already.

 

[Pdxrealtor]

You could also use a range rod/plug gauge to check for proper barrel/cylinder alignment. If you get no rod ticks or rubs then I doubt that you have any issues with the crane. This is the first tool that I would buy from Brownells. It is a very handy tool and is not that expensive. When you replace or refit parts that could effect alignment such as the hand, cranes, ratchet and cylinder stop, it is a must. The alignment issue is critical for proper operation, accuracy and safety. As indicated by others, Kuhnhausens book is a must before you start on any of this stuff. I also think he has a video. I think Brownells also sells it. But all said and done, I still think that you would be money and time ahead to contact S&W Perf Center and have them resolve the issues. Good luck!

Thanks. I've needed a range rod in the past. Added to order!

 

[armorer951]

The 6" ceramic stones are not used primarily for removal of material, but are used for final polishing, especially when working with sears and contact/bearing surfaces. India stones have a much more aggressive cutting surface.

 

[Pdxrealtor]

Thanks^^

What do you think about the file for hitting those surface shown in my pics above?

I'm looking at that or this, or both.

#00 Cut, XN Pillar File : EXTRA NARROW PILLAR FILES | Brownells

 

[Pdxrealtor]

I'm full of questions...

What about this reamer vs. the one you linked above? Big price difference.

 

[armorer951]

For me, small, fine/swiss cut pillar and needle files are about the only way to clean up milling imperfections in these very small spaces. I believe many here on the forum also use other methods with success, including different shaped stones of various sizes.

 

[Pdxrealtor]

And... what # file would you choose?

 

[armorer951]

To answer your earlier question.....the 4" barrette file is used to finish/file the "working" edge or side of the ratchet that interfaces with the hand during the last phase of the cyl. rotation prior to/during final lock up.

Here's some general info on files.....

https://www.kmstools.com/blog/hand-file-identification/

In swiss pattern files, the higher the number, the finer the cut. (from 00 to 6) Some pillar files are safe on one or both of the edges. There are several different patterns to the cut, depending on the job requirements. Both American and Swiss pattern files (and others) are available.

 

[bountyhunter]

The Kuhnhausen S&W shop manual, 5th edition, pages 97 thru 99 and 108 thru 109 covers it completely.

My edition must be older, doesn't have a word on it anywhere.

 

[Pdxrealtor]

To answer your earlier question.....the 4" barrette file is used to finish/file the "working" edge or side of the ratchet that interfaces with the hand during the last phase of the cyl. rotation prior to/during final lock up.

Here's some general info on files.....

https://www.kmstools.com/blog/hand-file-identification/

In swiss pattern files, the higher the number, the finer the cut. (from 00 to 6) Some pillar files are safe on one or both of the edges. There are several different patterns to the cut, depending on the job requirements. Both American and Swiss pattern files (and others) are available.

Thanks. I did the research on files, I was just wondering which number you preferred/thought would be best for the ratchet faces or similar. I as thinking a #0 so as to not leave to rough an area after deburring. Since this will be a one step vs. two or three step process.

I see the 00 is recommended for the Barret file, which I think can also double as a file used to shave the back of the cylinder release when relieving pressure there.

 

[Pdxrealtor]

Well I got just over 300 dollars of stuff, and got the 30 dollar discount. Woo hoo!

I got:
two files, a barret and pillar. both #0.
Ceramic stones, white and black
India Stones (had them)
A reamer, but not a face reamer. The standard interal reamer
A range rod
A yoke alignment tool
Kuhnhausen Manual
Extractor Tool
And a few extra sear and cylinder stop springs.

Doesn't seem like much for 350.00 bucks. I'll get to the bottom of what is now the Yoke issue if it's the last thing I do and it takes me a complete S&W gunsmith shop to do it. Haha...

 

[MygunisaS&Wrevolver]

While your at it, you might as well get a new lathe, milling machine with all of the assorted tools and build a new shop to house all of your new equipment. I am just kidding! This gunsmithing activity can also be an obsession. Good luck

 

[Toyman]

Here you go you are missing a few items.

In 1979 I had the great fortune to attend the Smith and Wesson armorer's school at the factory.
Following is a photo of my tools some from the factory some added through time.
Files
Grace hollow ground screw drivers
Peening hammer
Peening block
Yoke strecher
Babbet- well used !
Chuck for tightening-loosening extractor rods
fixture for checking run out of extractor rod
Staking tool for rear sight blade nut
Split driver for rear sight blade nut
Factory feeler gauges for head space and barrel cylinder gap
Hand window file
Factory punches with rounded tips so they will not slip of pins
Hardened center pin to check alignment of yoke to frame
Fixed center pins to check function of the action with the cylinder/yoke out of gun
Stones

 

[armorer951]

Toyman....were you there when John Contro was the instructor?

 

[Toyman]

Yes I was he was assisted by Donny Vinsencio (SPELLING). I went through September 1979. John signed my certificate. I called customer service a couple years ago and Donny was working there.