I come to the revolver world from the rifle world. In "rifle land" barrels wear out when the "throat" (the space between the end of the chamber and the beginning of the rifling) extends due to wear produced primarily by hot gasses "eroding" the throat. This is not primarily a mechanical wearing due to bullet contact with the rifle barrel metal. It is a "hot gas" issue. How about about "barrel erosion" at the forcing cone in revolvers? Is this erosion primarily hot gas produced or is it primarily metal-to-metal contact? Can bullet wear in revolvers EVER wear out the rifling in a revolver barrel.... copper or lead? Thanks for replies.
Revolver "Barrel Erosion" & Rifle "Throat Erosion"
- Thread starter Jeepster
- Start date
Register to hide this ad
john traveler
Member
Rifle barrel throat erosion and revolver forcing cone erosion share common origins. They are both caused by high flame temperatures eating away at the barrel steel at the point where combustion flame and gases flow past the bullet before it obturates in the bore. Bullet friction does not wear out barrels. Primers and burning powder do. The high flame temperatures superheat the skin of the barrel steel and damage it in a process called "brinelling" by metallurgists.
The extremes of barrel throat wear are exemplified by cartridges like the .256 Winchester and .357 Maximum, which produce in pistol cartridges, the equivalent of badly over-bore capacity in rifle calibers. They did not last long because of flame cutting and barrel burn out problems.
The only exception to this powder-versus bullet friction wear I can think of is in pistol caliber military and police submachine guns, where extended firing of bursts through overheated barrels DOES wear the bore in short order. That's why WWII subguns got the reputation for mediocre accuracy: Firing a couple thousand of rounds or a few dozen magazines of ammo during training indeed wears the throat and bore to the point that the subgun became a "spray and pray" weapon.
The extremes of barrel throat wear are exemplified by cartridges like the .256 Winchester and .357 Maximum, which produce in pistol cartridges, the equivalent of badly over-bore capacity in rifle calibers. They did not last long because of flame cutting and barrel burn out problems.
The only exception to this powder-versus bullet friction wear I can think of is in pistol caliber military and police submachine guns, where extended firing of bursts through overheated barrels DOES wear the bore in short order. That's why WWII subguns got the reputation for mediocre accuracy: Firing a couple thousand of rounds or a few dozen magazines of ammo during training indeed wears the throat and bore to the point that the subgun became a "spray and pray" weapon.
- Joined
- Oct 17, 2006
- Messages
- 7,775
- Reaction score
- 7,189
Throat erosion in rifles, as noted, is a product of temperature. Jim Owens website has several articles by Boots Obermeyer on barrels. He claims that throat erosion is directly proportional to the weight of the powder charge and rapidity of fire.
I recall a sectioned M1 Garand barrel that had been used for ammunition testing. It had fired 80,000 rounds and was still producing militarily acceptable groups with the first 8 inches of rifling gone. It's not real likely that you'll live long enough to erode a revolver barrel.
I recall a sectioned M1 Garand barrel that had been used for ammunition testing. It had fired 80,000 rounds and was still producing militarily acceptable groups with the first 8 inches of rifling gone. It's not real likely that you'll live long enough to erode a revolver barrel.
john traveler
Member
Err.....ANY S&W .500 or .460 owners care to comment on this one?
i don't believe any handgun can produce cooking temperatures and therefore barrel erosion like you will find in the restricted chamber of a 220 swift. i would expect it would be minimal in any revolver cartridge, even the largest.
Aussie44
Member
If I remember right Dan Wesson supplied a spare barrel for their .357 max,because the barrels didn't last to long.Eroded the barrels real quick.Heat is the major killer of barrels.I agree with john traveler here.
Ken
Ken
tomcatt51
Member
The 357 max got a very bad reputation and did exhibit top strap cutting and forcing cone erosion very quickly. The "fix" was to shoot heavy bullets (170+) and the "problem" became fairly minimal but the damage had been done. The 629-2 I have now is approaching 30,000 rds. It has very distinct top strap cutting and some noticeable forcing cone wear/erosion. The top strap cutting seems self limiting, goes so far and stops. The forcing cone wear hasn't affected accuracy and I've just ignored it.
Enigma
US Veteran
Some IPSC shooters have reported "shooting out" space-gun barrels during extended practice sessions, where they shoot a lot of ammo very, very quickly - almost like firing an SMG. I'm just a bit skeptical about that, but I have read of it.
mark5pt56
Member
Concerning pistols, I have over 50,000 through my Glock 17, all NATO pressure. The barrel looks new and it is as accurate as it was new. If I do my part, 50 yard offhand shots on the plates are no problem. I've got it hot plenty and it hasn't affected it. I some times go back to 100 and hit the 12x12 plates for fun
Mark
Mark
Concerning Barrel erosion, I have been shooting pistol matches at various clubs since 1980. I have a Smith and Wesson Model 10, It was in fair shape when I got it. Had it rebarrelled with a slap sided bull barrel, reblued, trigger job, timed in 1984 by a S & W approved gunsmith. I shoot 100 rounds (3.4 grains of W231)each month at the PPC match and add some practice. From a Ransom rest, the gun is as accurate today as it has ever been. Okay light loads, right. I also shoot IPSC style shooting, 120-150 rounds a match. 9.2 grains Winchester Super-lite pushing a 130 grain FMJ .38 Super, at about 1,300 fps. No apparent throat erosion or barrel wear. I have purchased a S & W .460 Magnum and having it scoped (leopold) to hunt
deer and Wild Hogs. I will report on it later, but my experience with the two previous pistols indicate that I will wear out before my barrels do. AS another poster said, if you can afford to shoot enough ammo to wear a barrel out, - - then you should be able to have the barrel replaced, - -- --- ---- if ever needed. From my experience most inaccuracies from a pistol shooter come from "that nut (person) that holds the grips"
deer and Wild Hogs. I will report on it later, but my experience with the two previous pistols indicate that I will wear out before my barrels do. AS another poster said, if you can afford to shoot enough ammo to wear a barrel out, - - then you should be able to have the barrel replaced, - -- --- ---- if ever needed. From my experience most inaccuracies from a pistol shooter come from "that nut (person) that holds the grips"
Centenniel
Member
Any man who gets to shoot a revolver enough to actually wear a barrel out, is a fortunate man indeed.
jepp2
Member
I didn't know that. I have commonly encountered brinelling in bearing damage, but that is totally different.
Forcing cone erosion is a BIG problem with the M-53 Jet. I have a pair of them. One has been shot a lot and the forcing cone is severely eroded. The other hasn't been shot that much, but still shows some.
