Revolver better than auto for CCW?

shootmeselfinfoot said:
I wonder what is the aveage # of rounds fired in a public self defense situation? Real life is not the movies where you empty a 17 round clip & reload. If you are unable to hit the attacker after 6 rounds you should really run instead of holding your ground.
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Some of us had knee surgery and running is not an option.
 
I didn't notice it, it just sorta happened; one day I became a pistol man. A lot has to do with the available alternatives. When I was younger, you didn't have much choice in carry autos. Now, there are not just a few, but a number of good choices that combine small size, shootability, and reliability in very reasonably priced packages.

All my life I swore by the j-frame revolver, but I've switch to the automatics over time for a number of reasons.

First, the ammunition. The 9MM is better then a 38spl and the 45 ACP is just about impossible to beat for self defense. Yes the 357 beats a 9MM, but I'm not one to load them up in a j-frame for daily carry. Yes, you can get a 9MM or 45ACP revolver, but my personal experience is that the 9MM suffer from some reliability problems, and the 45ACPs are fairly big guns. Got to give the autos the + here.

Second, the cleanup. If I carry a gun, I shoot it. I like to know it is reliable, and make sure it gets cleaned and the ammo rotated on a regular basis. The autos are hands down easier to clean. Got to give them the + here also.

Next, the reliability issue. I do agree it is tough to beat revolver reliability, but, I have never had an automatic that I could not get back into action by myself. I have, however, sent both my 640 and my 940 back to S&W for a problem I could not resolve myself. Most auto problems stem from lack of maintenance or bad ammo. These are problems that are easy to avoid. My experience with revolver problems are that, although rare (very very rare), they tend to be mechanical problems that take the gun out of action for good when they happen. All in all, I'd say that reliability is at best a push, but my personal opinion again is to give it to the auto.

Finally, capacity and reload. Yes, there are folks that can speed load a revolver faster then you can change a magazine, but I am not one of them. I agree that you probably don't need the extra rounds, and in fact rarely carry a spare magazine, but what can it hurt? I guess that I have to give it to the auto here again.

Does this mean that I feel bad about carrying a j-frame for defense - of course not. It just means that given the choice I'll go for the auto in almost every situation.
 
007BondJamesBond007 said:
You can use you revolver for paper target if you like. I feel 6 shots against two with Glocks you will change your mind fast.
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I'd rather avoid such a situation altogether, but against those odds, a trained shooter with six rounds can be more effective than two unschooled yokels with 34.

Either option is viable. If you shoot a pistol better, and you have one that's reliable, then it's the best choice. If (like me) you shoot a revolver better, then that's the best choice.

(Disclaimer: I once traded a Python for a Beretta because it held fifteen rounds :rolleyes:)

If you have followed the correct CCW rules, then why would you have to worry about empty shell casings?
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Not sure what was originally meant, but it's much easier to police and collect brass at the range with a revolver.

Now, in a self-defense situation, I wouldn't be leaving shells on the ground unless I reloaded. Of course, I'd also be the first person contacting law-enforcement, so it's a moot point.
 
los said:
I'd say a Revolver is far more superior to a Semi-Auto as a SD CCW.

The revolver will never have any of the common failure propensities specific to semi-autos such as..:

FTF (failure to feed)
FTE (failure to eject)
Stove Piping
Limp Wrist Syndrome
Premature Slide Lock
Premature Mag Drop
Hot casings bouncing off your forehead (ouchy mama !)

Firing out of battery
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DustyJacket said:
I switched from a compact 9mm to a .38 snubbie.

I wanted something I could leave loaded forever and not worry about spring fatigue or anything like that. I know I have at least 5 shots. More with a reload.
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Yes, my feeling too.
 
Let's face it. The only ones who really need high capacity are cops. For the rest of us, the best offense is to flee a dangerous situation. Most likely you won't be cornered like they make up in movieland. It's not a matter of cowardice. The probability of saving your own life is better when you leave it to your legs than leaving it to your aim.

I'm sure you heard self defense lessons where an attacker with a knife is just as deadly within X yards as one with a firearm.
 
I have always been and will be a revolver guy.When I started out in the shooting sports I looked @ semi's basically being a "Tool".With a revolver I was drawn to both its simplicity and its function as a work of art.As a CCW it was the right chioce for me.The safety is between the shooter's ears and if TSHTF point and pull trigger.No BOOM? Pull trigger again and BOOM.With civilians capacity will rarely be a issue because statistically we will not have multiple assialiants.If you have to go to your tactical reload you are in the wrong neighborhood and having a very bad day.My instructor was both a NRA and LE Instructor who rammed in our heads 1 target 1 shot.If you have to take a second thier better be a damn good reason.With the advent of the super nines with 17+1 capacity many times marksmanship goes out the window and we hear all about spray and pray.With becoming a NRA CFI I jumped into the world of semi's ,but my 640 and Detective Special are my go to guns...God Bless...Mike
 
After reading the Civilian Self Defense Blog for years, I realized the probability of needing 20 or 30 or 40 rounds of ammo is astronomically low. It's much more important to know what to do in a situation than it is to have boatloads of ammo. Don't buy a high capacity semi auto and think you're good to go.

Also, if you plan on leaving the scene of a shooting, you need to leave the gun at home. That is a VERY bad plan of action. If it's not legal to euthanize an animal where you live, then don't do it.
 
Photoman44 said:
After reading the Civilian Self Defense Blog for years, I realized the probability of needing 20 or 30 or 40 rounds of ammo is astronomically low.
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Good point. Also, shooting that many rounds in public will increase your chance of getting sued by the poor civilians in the backdrop. Or worst.
 
Cruiser RN said:
With the advent of the super nines with 17+1 capacity many times marksmanship goes out the window and we hear all about spray and pray.With becoming a NRA CFI I jumped into the world of semi's ,but my 640 and Detective Special are my go to guns...God Bless...Mike
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Good point. Your main street is not located in Iraq. The military has always emphasize putting out thousands of rounds to suppress the enemy since the Korean war but that tactic doesn't work in your neighborhood.
 
shootmeselfinfoot said:
Good point. Your main street is not located in Iraq. The military has always emphasize putting out thousands of rounds to suppress the enemy since the Korean war but that tactic doesn't work in your neighborhood.
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I know but in Detroit 5 rounds is not going to cut it. I try to stay out of the hood but times I have to travel through. I do agree most situations is settled in less then 5 rounds. We have had multiple attackers who are drug induced that we may have to deal with. One road rage case had two on one the guy fired his emptied his revolver killed one the other guy backed down but what if he had not? Now I do carry a revolver for lightweight conceal and such but my primary carry is a semi auto pistol.
 
Cruiser RN said:
I have always been and will be a revolver guy.When I started out in the shooting sports I looked @ semi's basically being a "Tool".With a revolver I was drawn to both its simplicity and its function as a work of art.As a CCW it was the right chioce for me.The safety is between the shooter's ears and if TSHTF point and pull trigger.No BOOM? Pull trigger again and BOOM.With civilians capacity will rarely be a issue because statistically we will not have multiple assialiants.If you have to go to your tactical reload you are in the wrong neighborhood and having a very bad day.My instructor was both a NRA and LE Instructor who rammed in our heads 1 target 1 shot.If you have to take a second thier better be a damn good reason.With the advent of the super nines with 17+1 capacity many times marksmanship goes out the window and we hear all about spray and pray.With becoming a NRA CFI I jumped into the world of semi's ,but my 640 and Detective Special are my go to guns...God Bless...Mike
Click to expand...

Well said my friend! I couldn't agree more. I sometimes carry a revolver, and sometimes a revolver. My auto is only loaded with seven rounds of nine, and I ain't worried about capacity. If I cannot defend myself in MOST situations with that then I ought not carry.
 
I knew I could stir the pot, and now be honest , if you go hunting with a single shot shot gun one day and a auto the next - which day will you get most tree rats? Easy with the single shot, because your mine will tell you I have one shot, with the auto your mine will say hurry up you have 4 extra rounds. How many times have you read or heard of 18 to 96 rounds fired and the bad guy hit once. In the old days if a LE fired more than two rounds was because there was more than one bad guy. Plus if there is more than two, the odds aren't going your way to walk away. When I carry and would need to shoot, I know I will stand sideways and shoot with one hand because that is what I do each week at a bullseye match. Plus it would be a head shoot if I can see it.
 
I am am old Marine vet, and collector/shooter for 40+ years who has owned darn near everything that goes BANG. My bedside gun is a 64 with Crimson Trace, my carry piece is either a 60, or 649 with Crimson Trace.

I really don't see a protracted gun battle in my future, but if I ever need a weapon for S.D. I am sure of my ability to hit what I aim at. 5-6 rounds, with a speed strip will get it done.

If I was a bouncer in a biker bar, or a doorman at a crack house, I may feel the need for a lot of rounds, and 3-4 spare mags. Neither is in my future.
 
depends. I have 2 revolvers, both 686 .357, one 2.5" and one 4". neither one will ever see carry in public. My 4" is used as a range gun and for my wife to grab in the low probability that she needs it at home. My 2.5" is for the wife as well, but also for me while i do yard work in case a bear or dog decides to test me. Just saw a bear last week in my yard. My carry gun is a S&W 6906. Flatter, and easier to conceal than the 686 2.5". I used to have a 642, but I hated shooting it, although it was great to carry. I am much more accurate with that 6906.

But, if I am venturing into unfriendly territory, or had a high risk job like a jeweler, a revolver would be nothing more than second gun. In the heat of the moment, 5 shots goes mighty fast, especially with more than one bad guy And I don't understand how that jeweler didn't have his antenna up when those two lowlifes walked in his store. They looked like thugs right when they walked in the door, and the one mutt kept putting his hand in his pocket. I'm glad he survived, but I chalk it more up to luck than anything else. Thugs like that know nothing about cover. and the jeweler was holding an empty gun on a guy who was still armed and not out of the picture yet. What was to stop him from firing a shot before he died?
 
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Bullseye Smith said:
I knew I could stir the pot, and now be honest , if you go hunting with a single shot shot gun one day and a auto the next - which day will you get most tree rats? Easy with the single shot, because your mine will tell you I have one shot, with the auto your mine will say hurry up you have 4 extra rounds. How many times have you read or heard of 18 to 96 rounds fired and the bad guy hit once. In the old days if a LE fired more than two rounds was because there was more than one bad guy. Plus if there is more than two, the odds aren't going your way to walk away. When I carry and would need to shoot, I know I will stand sideways and shoot with one hand because that is what I do each week at a bullseye match. Plus it would be a head shoot if I can see it.
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If that is the case then you only need a single shot handgun not a revolver. One shot one kill?

I know I can hit a man size target at 50ft with my semi auto. If I can do it at 50 10ft. would be easier. I cannot hit a man size target with a 642 at 50ft. Close up I could. Now at 50ft I can hit a pie pan size target with my 8 in Ruger Single Six but it would be not concealable or practical.
 
007BondJamesBond007 said:
If that is the case then you only need a single shot handgun not a revolver. One shot one kill?

I know I can hit a man size target at 50ft with my semi auto. If I can do it at 50 10ft. would be easier. I cannot hit a man size target with a 642 at 50ft. Close up I could. Now at 50ft I can hit a pie pan size target with my 8 in Ruger Single Six but it would be not concealable or practical.
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You can't hit a man size target in the torso with a 642 at 17 yards? That's not a very hard shot. And if you really want to, put a Crimson Trace grip on that. I used to hit the bullseye at 15 yards (45 feet) consistently with my 642 and laser grips, and that was firing from the hip.
 
S&W J frame snubbies are my normal carry. I do not feel "under gunned" with 5 shots. The snubbie J frame can ride in my pocket all day and go completely unnoticed.

I also like the safety aspect of a revolver. No chambering a round and having to lower a hammer or decock.

I just think, from a practical point of view, the snubbie J frame is the most practical, all day, everyday concealed carry.

Now don't get me wrong. If I "knew" I was going to need it, and any given time, then I'd carry the biggest gun I could get my hands on.

I've got them all....I just prefer the J frame.
 
I'm with Gutpile Charlie and Pinkymingeo, I carry a J-frame (340PD) for the same reasons they do. I know from experience that I will be so stressed out by the encounter that I will only be able to "point and click". IF I know in advanced that I need to prepare for a fight then I'll bring a lot more firepower or else get the hell out of Dodge.
 
Hi:
I was always a "Revolver Guy". The last few years of my LEO career my
Agency issued Sig P229 .40.
Now RETIRED I spend a lot of time sitting in my car with my two puppies while my wife is SHOPPING in various Malls. I have observed that the "Low Lifes" run in Packs/Gangs. That is the primary reason I CCW a high capacity auto, w/extra magazine, plus a BUG revolver.
Jimmy
 
jimmyj said:
Hi:
I was always a "Revolver Guy". The last few years of my LEO career my
Agency issued Sig P229 .40.
Now RETIRED I spend a lot of time sitting in my car with my two puppies while my wife is SHOPPING in various Malls. I have observed that the "Low Lifes" run in Packs/Gangs. That is the primary reason I CCW a high capacity auto, w/extra magazine, plus a BUG revolver.
Jimmy
Click to expand...

We do have a gang problem in my area.

As for revolver not failing see below.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BTT/is_173_29/ai_n7578382/
Gun lock failure
American Handgunner, Jan-Feb, 2005 by Massad Ayoob
12Next
Integral locks trigger a primal fear among those who know their lives may depend on their gun: "What if it locks by itself?" I know cops who stopped trusting Remington 870 pump guns the day they started coming with a key lock integrated with the safety button.

For many years, these integral gun locks have upset firearms purists in the theoretical sense, but caused no actual mechanical problems. However, I've recently run across three cases where these devices failed during firing. Two spontaneously locked themselves during firing at a commercial shooting range, and one lock managed to depart from the gun while its owner was shooting it.

All three were ultra-light Smith & Wesson revolvers firing very hard kicking ammunition. At the Manchester (NH) Indoor Firing Line, reports owner Jim McLoud, a Model 342 Titanium AirLite being fired with powerful .38 Special P , and a Model 340 Scandium AirLite being shot with full power .357 Magnum ammo both locked-up tight. McLoud determined the parts in their integral locks had shifted under the heavy recoil and locked up. In Rochester, Indiana, detective Dennis Reichard was firing his personally owned service revolver, a Model 329 Scandium with full power .44 Magnum, when the lock's flag mechanism flew out of its slot in the frame alongside the exposed hammer. While the .44 continued to fire, Reichard was less than thrilled with his duty weapon literally falling apart while he was shooting it, and has gone back to his old all-steel Model 629 without the integral lock mechanism.

This is not necessarily an indictment of Smith & Wesson, nor even of the integral lock system that company uses. It may be more of a lesson that extraordinarily light handguns firing extremely powerful ammunition can be damaged by the battering of constant, extreme recoil forces. Still, it gives us pause.

COPYRIGHT 2005 Publishers' Development Corporation
COPYRIGHT 2004 Gale Group
12

Out of all my guns the only one I had to send back for repair was my 642. S & W replaced the trigger group and springs.
 
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Bullseye Smith said:
How many times have you read or heard of 18 to 96 rounds fired and the bad guy hit once. In the old days if a LE fired more than two rounds was because there was more than one bad guy.
Click to expand...

Bollocks.

As a profession we didn't fire as many rounds back then because we simply didn't have as many at our disposal. The hit percentage wasn't any better then than now. The myth that the profession had more steely-eyed pisoleros is exactly that, a myth.
 
The best thing to do regarding the high capacity debate is to do some research regarding ACTUAL SHOOTINGS in the REAL WORLD and see how many shots are required to get the job done.
 
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