I'm not sure that that is a perfectly moral answer, and probably a competent lawyer could point out its legal limitations. However, I believe that the astute reader might assign some weight to the fact that an experienced LEO chose that as his sole advice.
Robbery Scenario: What to do?
- Thread starter Drummer Boy
- Start date
I go to a gas station that has a Dunkin Donuts in it. Needless to say there are usually a couple cop cars parked at the side.
One day there were a couple cops bull ****ting and I asked them the same question as the OP.
"What if I'm in line inside and see that the person in front of me has a gun drawn on the person behind the counter."
One cop said to shoot the dude in the back of the head.
One day there were a couple cops bull ****ting and I asked them the same question as the OP.
"What if I'm in line inside and see that the person in front of me has a gun drawn on the person behind the counter."
One cop said to shoot the dude in the back of the head.
That's one of the good answers, but it doesn't really deal with the question of whether there is already an accomplice inside the store. Without knowing the whole story, it's NOT one of the good answers.
Retired Chief
US Veteran
Observe. Look him over, and remember all the particulars you can. Be a good witness. If he starts shooting, seek cover, then, and only then, return fire. Off duty cops were given this advice years ago, and it is still good advice, given the circumstance that you are at the register and the perp sees you. Otherwise, seek cover (or an exit) FIRST, then look him over, remember all the particulars, etc.
Yiogo
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What can you do? He has a gun pointed at the clerk.
You can't start firing. He'll kill the clerk and probably others in the store.
Know where all the exits are and use one of them. Then call 911.
In the future stay out of convenience stores especially if they have bars on the windows.
You can't start firing. He'll kill the clerk and probably others in the store.
Know where all the exits are and use one of them. Then call 911.
In the future stay out of convenience stores especially if they have bars on the windows.
andyo5
Member
If a robber points a gun and demands money or anything else, I think there is an implied threat that he will shoot if he is denied what he wants. What to do about it is less clear. You might take the approach of trying to melt into the furniture and hope to be overlooked. If you are convinced he is going to shoot someone, you are faced with the possibility of knowing you just stood there and declined to try and save the victim. Coupled with the issue of whether you think you can get your weapon in play soon enough to do some good, and knowing that doing so will make you the prime target if you are not fast and accurate enough. It is a tough call. I'm not at all sure what I would do.
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@Drummer Boy,
It is always good to ask questions, it is how you learn. Even great advice can get you deeper in s*** creek than where you really want to be. You need to balance what you think you know with what you are capable of doing.
This is a serious question: how proficient are you with the handgun that you are planning on carrying? One of the worst things you can do is decide on how you are going to react, and find out that your skills can't deliver what your mind has initiated! You need to hit the range and work on your shooting skills. Focus on accuracy and timed drills shooting at paper plates anywhere from 3 yards to 7 yards. What you can do may shock the living daylights out of you. Once you feel confident with your range skills, try a few IDPA matches. When you do, just remember, these targets aren't shooting back at you!
Once you see what you are physically capable of doing with a handgun may make many of your questions moot. You may show yourself that you are not skilled enough to intervene. Remember, your primary job is to make it back to your loved ones at the end of the day.
It is always good to ask questions, it is how you learn. Even great advice can get you deeper in s*** creek than where you really want to be. You need to balance what you think you know with what you are capable of doing.
This is a serious question: how proficient are you with the handgun that you are planning on carrying? One of the worst things you can do is decide on how you are going to react, and find out that your skills can't deliver what your mind has initiated! You need to hit the range and work on your shooting skills. Focus on accuracy and timed drills shooting at paper plates anywhere from 3 yards to 7 yards. What you can do may shock the living daylights out of you. Once you feel confident with your range skills, try a few IDPA matches. When you do, just remember, these targets aren't shooting back at you!
Once you see what you are physically capable of doing with a handgun may make many of your questions moot. You may show yourself that you are not skilled enough to intervene. Remember, your primary job is to make it back to your loved ones at the end of the day.
That might be an acceptable action in that jurisdiction, but the devil is always in the details. Despite what an LEO might advise while bullshooting outside the Dunkin Donuts, he may or may not be giving sound legal advice and you, as an armed citizen, will not enjoy the same latitude as an LEO if things don't go quite as planned, or in the event you misjudge the situation.
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So don't fire unless fired upon???? No thanks
Starting the "fight" and starting the "gun fight" are two different things...once the "fight" is started it's very desirable to be the one to start the "gun fight"...
If you it right it will be a shooting not a gun fight
OP
Drummer Boy
Member
I agree 100% that range time & training is very important. My original question was from the legal standpoint. On one hand, I don't want to stand by & watch someone be executed. On the other hand, I don't want to go to prison for possibly saving someone's life, based on the assumption that the perp was about to put a bullet through their head. There's no way of knowing what's in the robbers head. In my opinion, and this is not based on anything I've read or heard, when someone points a gun at someone's head or chest in a threatening manner, the situation has turned deadly. I may be wrong, but that's the way I see it.
Kid44
Member
I don't have time to read all the replies to this one but in my mind if your life, and anyone else's is not in immediate danger just stay out of it. Do your best to describe the robber to the cops and go home to live another day. Being a hero would be a great thing, being a dead guy, not so much.
What's going on in a robber's head is immaterial. The objective, reasonable man standard will apply.
Armed robbery, by definition, is a deadly force encounter.
Keep in mind that your actions might result in the death of another; however, because of the felony murder rule, the suspect will be charged should the death of another occur.
I cannot tell you how to respond to such a threat. There are far too many variables involved; e.g., layoff suspect in store.
TexasArmed
Member
I said before location ie. the State you are in matters. If you
shoot someone who is doing an armed robbery say with a knife
or a crowbar, not shooting might turn out okay, but then it might not. Here is a case i saw where a woman did not pull her gun
and kill the robber before he tried using the crow bar on a 14 year old. So not shooting an armed robber can also have consequences.
Subway Employee Lets a Pair of Violent Robbers Have it Their Way – Bearing Arms
I would hate to think some 14 year old was killed with a crowbar
because i did not shoot in time.
shoot someone who is doing an armed robbery say with a knife
or a crowbar, not shooting might turn out okay, but then it might not. Here is a case i saw where a woman did not pull her gun
and kill the robber before he tried using the crow bar on a 14 year old. So not shooting an armed robber can also have consequences.
Subway Employee Lets a Pair of Violent Robbers Have it Their Way – Bearing Arms
I would hate to think some 14 year old was killed with a crowbar
because i did not shoot in time.
elm_creek_smith
US Veteran
THE USE OF DEADLY FORCE
Questions and Answers
North Carolina
Sheriffs’ Association
"Q. When can I use my handgun to protect a family member or to protect another person?"
"A. In protecting a family member or another person, you can only use deadly force (i.e., your handgun) if, under the circumstances, the family member or other person would be legally justified in using deadly force to protect himself or herself, i.e., to save the person from imminent threat of death, great bodily harm or sexual assault."
YOU are the only one who can make that choice. If I were the cashier, I would vote for a surreptitious draw followed by a head shot without warning. Just sayin'.
Questions and Answers
North Carolina
Sheriffs’ Association
"Q. When can I use my handgun to protect a family member or to protect another person?"
"A. In protecting a family member or another person, you can only use deadly force (i.e., your handgun) if, under the circumstances, the family member or other person would be legally justified in using deadly force to protect himself or herself, i.e., to save the person from imminent threat of death, great bodily harm or sexual assault."
YOU are the only one who can make that choice. If I were the cashier, I would vote for a surreptitious draw followed by a head shot without warning. Just sayin'.
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Mulebuk Sam
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#1 stay out of convenient stores especially after dark.
Don't even stop at a self serve for gas and don't ever visit an ATM after dark, even a drive through.
#2 you don't get paid to be a hero worry about your own *** because no one else will and when it's all said and done you may find yourself in court getting sued.
My motto is, call 9/11 cause you have every right to chose how you protect yourself and I'm not out there to protect anyone but myself.
Your best defense is to stay aware and some of that awareness is mention in #1. Try not to ever put yourselve in vulnerable positions that can be avoided.
As someone said above, best not to go to convenience stores -- especially if it's in a bad part of town. Essentially, avoid the need to go to a convenience store. I find life is better when you go to a regular grocery during the day if possible, stock up all the goodies including your lottery ticket. I seldom need to leave the house in the evening. I do on occasion, but I generally ask myself if is really important for me to go someplace, or am I just giving-in to boredom. Firing-up the car and making a special trip for non-essential item(s) is uneven IMO. Of course, if it's on the way home and you truly need something, that's another matter. But these days, I don't want to run the car and expose myself to the potential of getting into a traffic accident for a 6 pack or some smokes -- not that I smoke.
Be a very good witness, get the best description you can of the robber and if possible get a description of the vehicle or if he flees on foot see what direction he went. Don't pursue if they're on foot. The police may want to utilize a K9 to track the subject so they need to know where he was last seen.
If the situation goes south then follow state law and what you were taught in your training.
Yiogo
US Veteran
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If the BG has a gun pointed at the clerk and you shoot him, reflexively he will probably shoot the clerk.
Hopefully, the clerk will give him the money and he will be on his merry way.
I don't know what anyone else should do but I would seek cover or retreat and call 911.
Excellent food for thought.
Hopefully, the clerk will give him the money and he will be on his merry way.
I don't know what anyone else should do but I would seek cover or retreat and call 911.
Excellent food for thought.
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