I just took delivery of a very nice model 25-2 from another member and celebrated by laying in a supply of .45 AR brass and Hornady 200 gr swaged RN/FP bullets. I read somewhere that the typical taper crimp applied to .45 ACP for use in semiautos may not be adequate for revolver use. I was surprised to hear that and I'm skeptical, particulary with target (700 - 800 ish fps) loads. The article recommended a roll crimp just above the ogive. I'm not able to check at the moment, are .45 ACP dies capable of a roll crimp? I'm thinking no. Can I use .45 Colt dies or are the dimensions wrong? Thanks!
Roll Crimp for .45 ACP
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ArchAngelCD
Moderator, SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
In most cases the taper crimp is adequate but if not RCBS has a 45 ACP roll crimp die and it's not expensive either.
RCBS Roll Crimp Seater Die 45 ACP 45 GAP
They list only 4 in stock.
You can also use a Redding profile crimp die.
Redding Profile Crimp Die 45 ACP 45 Auto Rim
RCBS Roll Crimp Seater Die 45 ACP 45 GAP
They list only 4 in stock.
You can also use a Redding profile crimp die.
Redding Profile Crimp Die 45 ACP 45 Auto Rim
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I use a .45 ACP die to close down case mouths in order to take the .452 diameter bullets that are available to me to shoot in my .45 Colt Uberti Yellowboy rifle. But using .45 Colt to roll crimp .45 ACP? Mmmmmm.
My first thought would be how old your .45 Colt dies are.
Older dies are set up for the .454 diameter of “traditional” .45 Colt. Newer dies are set for the .452 diameter of the “modern .45 Colt, hence my use of the ACP sizing die. And then there is the mater of the taper.
I guess you can only try it. Reload a single round, seat the bullet but do not crimp then try the Colt roll crimp die.
But first I would shoot your 25 to see if it is necessary.
My first thought would be how old your .45 Colt dies are.
Older dies are set up for the .454 diameter of “traditional” .45 Colt. Newer dies are set for the .452 diameter of the “modern .45 Colt, hence my use of the ACP sizing die. And then there is the mater of the taper.
I guess you can only try it. Reload a single round, seat the bullet but do not crimp then try the Colt roll crimp die.
But first I would shoot your 25 to see if it is necessary.
STORMINORMAN
Member
45 acp dies are 45 AR dies: different shellholders, though...
There are many taper crimp and roll crimp dies available, but the LEE Factory Crimp die is my personal favorite.
P.S. You have to really load 'em pretty hot (almost to X-1K 45 Super velocities?) or over-expand the cases (and/or not crimp properly?) in my experience, to have either bullet jump or set-back issues.
There are many taper crimp and roll crimp dies available, but the LEE Factory Crimp die is my personal favorite.
P.S. You have to really load 'em pretty hot (almost to X-1K 45 Super velocities?) or over-expand the cases (and/or not crimp properly?) in my experience, to have either bullet jump or set-back issues.
Milton
US Veteran
My 625 performs without a hitch with 45 acp rounds crimped with a Lee Factory Crimp.Just a suggestion.
AManWearingAHat
Member
I’ve not had a problem with taper crimps in any of my revolvers.
Lee dies and older RCBS .45ACP dies have a roll crimp built in. If you set them deep enough. I don't have experience with other dies.......
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I only use cast bullets in any .45 handgun, so what I mention here may not apply to jacketed bullets.
Taper crimp works fine for revolver use, but you may have to do some trial-and-error work to get it just right for your gun and load. Roll crimp works too. Regardless of the type of crimp, it's generally best to use just enough to prevent bullet movement and no more for best accuracy.
Roll crimps were actually quite popular years ago for cast bullet .45 ACP rounds used in 1911-style guns and they work fine. The Star loading machine I used to have had only a roll crimp die, no taper crimp.
I did an informal accuracy comparison once, roll crimp vs. taper crimp. I don't recall the exact results, but there wasn't much difference. There were no differences with regard to feeding, functioning, and reliability.
There is an old article recommending a roll crimp for .45 ACP written up by a well-recognized expert in the NRA Cast Bullet book. Regardless, and to keep everything simple, I use a taper crimp for .45 ACP and .45 Auto Rim, semi-automatic or revolver.
Taper crimp works fine for revolver use, but you may have to do some trial-and-error work to get it just right for your gun and load. Roll crimp works too. Regardless of the type of crimp, it's generally best to use just enough to prevent bullet movement and no more for best accuracy.
Roll crimps were actually quite popular years ago for cast bullet .45 ACP rounds used in 1911-style guns and they work fine. The Star loading machine I used to have had only a roll crimp die, no taper crimp.
I did an informal accuracy comparison once, roll crimp vs. taper crimp. I don't recall the exact results, but there wasn't much difference. There were no differences with regard to feeding, functioning, and reliability.
There is an old article recommending a roll crimp for .45 ACP written up by a well-recognized expert in the NRA Cast Bullet book. Regardless, and to keep everything simple, I use a taper crimp for .45 ACP and .45 Auto Rim, semi-automatic or revolver.
I’ve shot many hundreds if not thousands of rounds through 45 ACP revolvers and never had a problem with standard 45 ACP dies. I would not worry about it. If a problem develops address it at that time. Magazines need content and sometimes embellish or make stuff up. Most ACP bullets are not setup for a roll crimp anyways so you’ll be forced to use a light roll crimp which is basically the same as a taper crimp.
A 45 Colt die probably won’t work because the crimp section of the die is much further into the die than a 45 ACP case will reach. You would have to take metal off the bottom of the die for it to function.
A 45 Colt die probably won’t work because the crimp section of the die is much further into the die than a 45 ACP case will reach. You would have to take metal off the bottom of the die for it to function.
bigggbbruce
Member
Ditto.. 45ACP is not a magnum load....
I use a taper crimp on light practice loads in my .357 magnum and .44 magnum without any problems. Your bullet grip is controlled by how tightly the case holds the bullet.
Below if you can see where the base of the bullet stops in the case or if the case is wasp waisted you have plenty of bullet grip.
The only problem you could have is with work hardened brass that springs back excessively after sizing. And a Lee undersize die would fix that problem.
Below if you can see where the base of the bullet stops in the case or if the case is wasp waisted you have plenty of bullet grip.
The only problem you could have is with work hardened brass that springs back excessively after sizing. And a Lee undersize die would fix that problem.
Ivan the Butcher
Member
My 625 (Series of 1989) fires taper crimped ammo fine from target to +P velocities! I don't shoot +P's in my 1917, but the target ammo works pretty darn good.
Ivan
Ivan
OP
Thanks for all the replies. I think I will load a few with a good taper crimp and see if bullet jump is really an issue before I try to solve a problem that may not exist.
.38SuperMan
Member
I have both 45 1911’s and 625-2 and use a Dillon Square Deal B with a taper crimp. I’ve loaded and fired tens of thousands of rounds through the 1911’s and 2 625-2’s and never had any issues using a taper crimp.
ArchAngelCD
Moderator, SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
I think that is the correct plan, keep us updated.
noylj
Member
If you want to roll crimp for revolver, there is ONLY one choice--get the Redding Profile Crimp die in .45 Auto...
fredj338
Member
Tapsr crimp in a revo is fine if you are not using heavy bullets at higher vel. I run my m625 with std factory loads & taoer crimp, no issues.
As already stated, standard power 45ACP loads in a full size all steel revolver are not going to have a problem jumping crimp unless they were grossly mis-assembled.
However hot loads (45 Super) in a lightweight alloy frame (Sc/Al) revolver can jump crimp if not held in place with good bullet-case tension.
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To be able to crimp over the ogive you'd have to deep seat the bullet. In a 45ACP case that might get you in trouble. The powder volume (density & weight) might preclude that being it's a relatively small case.
I deep seat round nose bullets in 45 Colt & 460 Magnum cases but they're reduced loads with fast/moderate speed powders in large capacity cases with little fear of running into pressure issues.
And when you can safely deep seat the bullet over the ogive you only need a few thousands of an inch crimp on the case mouth to hold the bullet from moving forward. Just enough to touch the curve of the bullet. I've found a taper crimp die will often suffice in this manner.
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If you have the Lee 4 die Factory Crimp Die sets in both 45ACP and 45 Colt then when you load 45AR cases & bullets with cannelures you can remove the crimping insert from the Colt FCD & substitute it in the ACP FCD, along with a spacer (I use a 3/8" ID copper bushing, ~0.5" long by ~0.5" wide, as the Colt insert is shorter than the ACP's) to roll crimp them.
Conversely, if you load some 45 Colt cases with bullets w/o cannelures (light to moderate loads) you do the substitution swap the other way.
If you have the ACP FCD set but don't have the Colt FCD set, I read you can buy the 45 Colt's FCD crimp insert, along with the spacer, from LEE for a nominal fee, by calling & asking. That way you keep the FCD features, post-sizing & easy adjustments.
The post-sizer on the two FCDs are not the same diameter (Colt & ACP), with the Colt being larger by several thousands (.478" vs .471" ID; Colt vs ACP). This is one reason I don't interchange them as a complete unit, but swap the crimping insert only, besides the overall die length differences.
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308 Scout
Member
I took delivery of a 1917 a couple of days ago, my first 45 ACP revolver ever. Yesterday evening I loaded some 252 gr. cast SWC's and used the roll crimp that is built in to my old RCBS dies. Worked fine. I've also shot a few dozen of my cast RN reloads for my 1911 that were taper crimped and they worked fine too. I'll have my AR brass ina couple of days and expect I'll roll crimp the loads therein.
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