Rubio proposes Red Flag

[Roller Delayed]

Would you feel comfortable with Ruth bader Ginsberg judging your mental condition ? Or maybe George Soros ? Crazy people will always be with us . If I have to deal with one I prefer and will be armed . It’s purely a matter of when to call 911 . I prefer to make the call after situation is in hand .

Why would George Soros be judging my mental condition?

The hearing is where credible witnesses and mental health or LE professionals present evidence of intent to harm, and the judge decides whether that evidence meets the letter of the law.

What if someone lies? Criminal penalties.
What if the judge is anti-gun? They still have to make a written argument for their decision, which will get them disbarred if they keep going against the law.
What if mental health workers lie? Lawsuit, loss of license.
What if LE lies? Well, they sometimes do already, but what is their motivation? Are cops widely anti-gun?


There isn't a slippery slope here where all gun owners are going to be on a 12 month renewable firearms hold. The court system isn't large enough for that and the police don't have that kind of storage. Abuses are possible, but that is true for every part of the justice system, and this law is poorly set up for wide-spread abuse because of all of its bureaucracy.



I'm not really trying to advocate for this law as much as explain it. Some of the things being said really don't make much sense in the greater context of how the justice system has always worked. It isn't like any of you are concerned about the travesty of pre-trial confinement - which takes a lot more of your liberty than just guns without facing your accusers.

 

[Ackley1952]

James Madison and Thomas Jefferson already addressed this in a document dated 1789 you might wanna read it . If all those groups of professionals protect you that’s ok with me as long as I protect myself . You’ll always make the 911 call saying please send someone with a gun to take care of this crazy person . Others will call later saying you can come help me dispose of what’s left of this crazy person. Just a matter of timing and personal preference.

 

[Roller Delayed]

James Madison and Thomas Jefferson already addressed this in a document dated 1789 you might wanna read it . If all those groups of professionals protect you that’s ok with me as long as I protect myself . You’ll always make the 911 call saying please send someone with a gun to take care of this crazy person . Others will call later saying you can come help me dispose of what’s left of this crazy person. Just a matter of timing and personal preference.

So you live 2000 miles from your daughter, who tells you her ex-boyfriend has been fantasying about killing her with a sniper rifle and has evidence of that obsession. She calls 911, but he hasn't threatened her directly, so the police visit his house and then leave. He seems off, but hasn't broken any law. He's actually schizophrenic, but has not been diagnosed yet and does not do anything that meets the criteria for a 72 hour psych hold and evaluation.

What should happen at this point? Does your daughter stay inside for the rest of her life? Does she get shot on the way to work at a range where her personal weapon is not of value? Will that be acceptable because he was innocent until he killed her, and had a right to be armed up to the moment he pulled the trigger?

 

[Ackley1952]

If you’ll give me his address I’ll handle it and won’t bother assets of justice system. Continue to live in your Pollyanna world and I hope all goes well for you . Bye

 

[Ackley1952]

Maybe we could limit his scope magnification by law to 2.5 power to resolve this hypothetical threat of yours . Some of us actually feel a sense of relief and joy when we have these government shutdowns. Just wish we could make it permanent.

 

[Roller Delayed]

If you’ll give me his address I’ll handle it and won’t bother assets of justice system. Continue to live in your Pollyanna world and I hope all goes well for you . Bye

You're 2000 miles away, remember Polly? He'll either kill her before you get there, or you'll go away for murder after you do. Those are more palatable to you than just taking the guy's rifle while people try to get him committed?

I'm not describing a weird situation. Half the women killed are murdered by a "domestic partner" of some kind. There are usually signs. Same with most of the mass shootings.

 

[Roller Delayed]

Maybe we could limit his scope magnification by law to 2.5 power to resolve this hypothetical threat of yours . Some of us actually feel a sense of relief and joy when we have these government shutdowns. Just wish we could make it permanent.

Maybe you could make him shoot her at 100 yards with iron sights. Would that feel better?

 

[Ackley1952]

Animals take care of their weird and different examples in their specie. If If it wasn’t for our failed justice system we’d go back to taking care of ours. If would be swift and effective. All the things our current system is not . Instead of protecting the innocent we currently protect the guilty

 

[Ackley1952]

You can’t stomp out stupid it’s with us to stay . But I don’t advocate putting you away . I’ll just continue to work around you .

 

[Roller Delayed]

Animals take care of their weird and different examples in their specie. If If it wasn’t for our failed justice system we’d go back to taking care of ours. If would be swift and effective. All the things our current system is not . Instead of protecting the innocent we currently protect the guilty

Aren't you the one concerned about protecting the gun rights of the unhinged? Or would he be the innocent in your example?

 

[Ackley1952]

He would have been pecked before he was large enough to eat . Baby chickens seem to have a keen sense on how to intuitively handle these situations. Are you suggesting that a thousand baby chicks could be wrong?

 

[Roller Delayed]

He would have been pecked before he was large enough to eat . Baby chickens seem to have a keen sense on how to intuitively handle these situations. Are you suggesting that a thousand baby chicks could be wrong?

Predators generally aren't runts of the litter. I would say that quite a few of the people that kill innocent people and beat their wives are quite "manly".

 

[Ackley1952]

Cluck cluck

 

[dockmurgw]

We recently had an incident here where a kid in middle school told another kid that he wanted to shoot up the school, and said he was going to get a gun from his uncles house. This was reported to the police, and rightfully so. The police went to the uncles home, found his weapons properly and responsibly stored in a safe that the nephew had no access to. The kids claim of access to the guns came as a complete surprise to the uncle, he had no idea what the kid was talking about. But under our new red flag law, the police were able to get an immediate court order and confiscate guns that the kid never had access to. Yes, these laws are being abused, be aware that you can get a knock at the door if someone you know makes the false claim that they can access your guns.

 

[Roller Delayed]

We recently had an incident here where a kid in middle school told another kid that he wanted to shoot up the school, and said he was going to get a gun from his uncles house. This was reported to the police, and rightfully so. The police went to the uncles home, found his weapons properly and responsibly stored in a safe that the nephew had no access to. The kids claim of access to the guns came as a complete surprise to the uncle, he had no idea what the kid was talking about. But under our new red flag law, the police were able to get an immediate court order and confiscate guns that the kid never had access to. Yes, these laws are being abused, be aware that you can get a knock at the door if someone you know makes the false claim that they can access your guns.

Where did that happen? How long are the guns supposed to remain in custody, or did they actually get confiscated permanently?

Edit: Found it. It sounds like the seizure was illegal as the judge exceeded the powers the law granted. So the law didn't cause this to happen, a poor judgement did.

I imagine the gun owner could seek damages for the abuse.

Vermont Teens Planned a School Shooting So Police Confiscated a Relative's Guns - The Truth About Guns

 

[M29since14]

Where did that happen? How long are the guns supposed to remain in custody, or did they actually get confiscated permanently?

Edit: Found it. It sounds like the seizure was illegal as the judge exceeded the powers the law granted...

Imagine that!

 

[DevilDog72]

….and what happens to the poor Uncle who now has to hire a lawyer to fight this unjust action? To regain his property without disfigured guns with evidence stamps... damage by mishandling..... time... money...anguish....frustration.... reputation. Sure he can sue.....and how much more time, money, frustration, anguish is a person supposed to have to endure?

I do believe the mentally ill need help.
I do believe in this political environment abuses will be more common
I do believe if we keep giving in they will continue to take
I do believe if we do not band together we will fall

I am beginning to believe this fight for our rights will not end well


We squabble amongst ourselves… open carry vs concealed carry....magazine limits...bump stocks…"assault " weapons... "reasonable" laws(restrictions)….where in the 2nd amendment is any of these topics.

 

[SMSgt]

Gun owners can be their own worst enemies.

 

[DevilDog72]

yes

Gun owners can be their own worst enemies.

I could not agree more