Rust blue questions

scoobysnacker

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Looking into trying my hand at rust-bluing a couple of slides; one definitely needs something, and the other could use a sprucing up.

I looked at this site and it seems fairly easy, if time-consuming
http://bushcraftusa.com/forum/threads/christmas-for-my-1911-i-rust-blue.82023/

Couple questions- if I want to just fix up the external, what's the best way to mask off the insides? Someone said spray it with lacquer, is that easy, or potentially a big mess?

Also and a bit off the beaten path- for a blued slide (or any part) with just a little rust freckling, would degreasing and boiling in distilled water serve as a quick fix- turn the red rust into blue, then card and oil?

Thanks
 
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I always used red fingernail polish to mask. I suppose other colors would work. Finish the metal to a 220 grit finish. Any finer than that and it will take FOREVER. Be sure to degrease after each carding. Wear rubber gloves while working. Card as soon as you get a good coat of rust. Go too long and you will get pitting. I start off the carding with 0000 steel wool. Once the finish starts to even out I just use a dirty towel. The steel wool tends to take the finish off the edges. A dirty towel is not nearly as aggressive, but it is not enough for starting out. Once it gets fairly even you will not get much more rust. Just keep going. Degrease, rust, card every 12 hours even after it looks like it does not need it any more. It will slowly turn a deep purplish brown after about a month of this. At this point you will probably decide that a browned finish looks a whole lot nicer than a blued one. But if you decide to blue, all it takes is one dip in the boiling water. If not, then go back to the browning for another week. The trick to doing this right is take your time. If you get in a hurry it is going to look sloppy. Go slow and it will look incredible. In the summer figure it will take a about a month. If you do it in the winter figure on it taking nearly all winter. Depends on the humidity.

Use this stuff for the rusting Track's Tried & True Browning Reagent,
2 ounces - Track of the Wolf
 
No real need to mask off anything if doing an Express Blue job,,just avoid putting any soln over those areas.
If slow rust bluing, I use common shellac to mask off areas that I don't want to be rusted and blued. I also use shellac inside the bores on bbls that are being damascus finished as those go thru a dunking in ferric chloride soln and will etch the bores each time if not protected.
The shellac holds up just fine thru repeated boiling cycles. I sometimes re-coat the bores in a damascus finish job after 6 or so cycles just to be on the safe side. Damascus finishing can take 12 and more cycles. Rust blue only 4 to complete. I boil after each rusting instead of building a rust brown up over several coatings and then boiling once.
Just the way I've always done it.

You can stabilize some active rust by boiling a part like a slide. It'll turn the red rust to blu/black rust just like the regular rust bluing process.
However you may end up with a blotchy off color look to the areas as the rust has not formed uniformly as in the controlled rust bluing process. Plus the finish of the rest of the slide is glazed and pores filled with old dried oil and what ever else from years of handling and use
Often it can be made to look quite uniform by first gently hand polishing the entire part just enough to break through that surface and expose some fresh metal. No need to even remove the bluing that is there. You will scratch it but only to the extent of the grit size of abrasive you are using and that is the goal.
Match that to what the original polish is underneath the blue and you won't disturb the original look of the piece when done.

When it's all cleaned up, degrease it and go ahead with your rust bluing on the part. Apply a coating to the entire part. Either an Express Blue soln coating or let it rust in a Slow Rust cycle. Don't let it rust too heavily in the latter, It doesn't need that heavy red coating to produce a layer of blue when boiled.
When it's ready, boil the part and check the color. It may be all it needs. Perhaps one more will do it. Covering old blue both hot salts and rust types can be done quite well with rust blues if you pay attention to how the solns and the rustings are responding.

Slow rust blue solns rusting times vary with humidity and temp of course.
But even in winter, I get a rusting cycle in about 20 to 24hrs using LaurelMtn soln. It's 64F in here all winter and humidity is ?. I just hang the parts and keep watch on them till they're ready. Sometimes that first coat needs a re-coat before they take off and start rusting. Again, no need to build up a heavy orange/red coating of rust on the parts to get you a coating of blue color. Just a light hint of brown on the part, sometimes I have to see it in better light than the simple overhead light in the room. Usually I very lightly drag my fingers down the hanging part(s) and feel the coating and know it's ready.

If I want to really speed up the rusting process, I hang or prop the parts up in a shower room. Turn the shower on for a couple minutes to steam up the room. Then turn the shower off and leave the door closed.
Don't let the water get on the parts, you just want them subjected to the humidity and temp. Not humid enough to cause water droplets to form on them either as they will spot the finish and ruin it.
They'll be rusted nicely in about an hour to 2 hours.
You can do a slow rust complete job in a (long) day that way.

Most chemical solutions don't have mercury in them anymore like the older ones did. (Herters Belgian Blue sold by Brownells as a new product may still have it, the last time I tried that,, it did).
I simply stay away from any that do,,but another thing to watch for is if you do use any of them (usually Express Solns), the mercury will plate out onto any non-ferris metals on the gun when applyed. So anything with gold inlays, brass & copper(sight beads & bars), ect will come up with a terribly tough adhering coating of silver mercury on them.
It does not just rub off,,It's there to stay.
We used to have to burn it off w/a torch to remove it (wonder where the shakes come from?)
Just stay away from anything w/mercury. Plenty of perfectly good rusting soln's that don't have any in them.
Yes they worked great (Birchwood Casey Plum Brown old formula was another one w/ Mercury Bichloride), but they aren't worth messing with.
 
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Thanks for the responses, I think I'm going to try this soon.

I bought a beater Sig p226, which runs great but was rougher than sin externally (slide only, the alloy frame is in good shape. There was some pitting on the front of the slide, along the upper edges, and around the slide serrations. I took some inspiration from somebody on thehighroad.com, and carefully cleaned up what I could, even draw-filing some points. I am satisfied with it, did a quickie cold blue and it seems ok. Plan now would be a more permanent blue, so some version of the express blue would be the path I believe.

I don't want to touch the insides, just the external.

I'm in south Louisiana, I think we have the humidity to do this (it's muggy and in the 80's as I type).
 
If you're doing an Express rust blue,,humidity and air temp are of no concern,
Express Rust Blue is the type where the soln is applied to the warmed surfaces of the parts and they rust immediately. They go right into the boiling water tank for 10min or so to turn them blue/black.
Pull them out and card off the loose fine dustfrom the surface.
Then recoat them once again (rewarm them if needed,,if you work fast enough and the parts are large enough they can carry enough residual heat that you can go cycle to cycle carrying enough heat each time.)
To warm or re-warm them I use a propane torch. The old method was to simply place them in the boiling water.
Either works but the water tank method can leave you with spots many times.
No need to 'warm' them any hotter than what boiling water will get them (200+F).
Getting them hotter than that with the torch will make the soln sizzle on the surface and that will cause areas of discolor/pitting/matteing to the steel.
You keep adding coats, boiling & carding (cycles) till the color suits you. Card efficiently. Keep any and all oil/fingerprints, ect off the metal. The tinyest amt will spoil the job.
The common old school term for this type of Express Bluing was Baker's or Belgian Bluing. The former from a particular soln formula that was popular. Both relied on mercury bichloride to work and they did,,very well!

Slow rust blue or Cold Rust,,there's where you take advantage of the temp and humidity as you get the rust forming not artificially as above with heat and chemicals,,,but by natural occurance of the chemical w/ humidity and temp & time.
Different chemicals make up the different solns for Express Rust vs Slow Rust bluing. Though some specific ones will or can be found in some of the recipes for either.

Slow Rust is the easiest and gives the least problems in application. Express Rust can sometimes give you problems with off colors on a certain piece or 'soft' edges (blueing built up on edges wears off quickly).
Trying to fix these problems while juggling hot pieces of metal over a boiling tank of water and trying not to touch anything can be a real challange!
But they both do work well and have their place.

I do most all by slow rust now but still do some smaller parts by Express if they are all I have to do for a project at the time.

There's even a method called 'fume bluing'. Nitric and hydrochloric acid fumes are used to create a thin even coating of rust on the steel.
A wooden box w/a lid that seals up tightly are needed,,usually lying flat works the best instead of upright standing.
The acids are NOT mixed. Instead a couple of drops of each are put into small open containers (plastic bottle caps worked well enough), The caps placed around the inside of the box. The parts placed inside and supported so as to not interfere with the fumes from the acid that would now circulate around them.
It took some experimentation to get the amt and # and placement of the caps just right, but it would lay down a beautiful rusting if you could find that positioning. it does require bore plugging and masking of any surfaces you don't want blued.
The real advantage of the process is not in any speed or easy to do feature of it,,but rather it's most beautiful deep blue color if it's done correctly.
I fritted around with the process for quite a while years back and got some nice results but finally gave up on it. Just too much chances of acid pitting the metal if things weren't laid out just right inside there. Air temp and humidity played a role too and there was little you could do about that.
 
I'm considering trying this?
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHyoUF50rF0[/ame]
Steve
 
Quite a few people are using a steam set up instead of a tank to boil the parts in. I've just never gotten around to it having used the tank method for 45yrs+ now. Change is difficult for me!

It works well and is a simple set up. A couple I've seen use a pressure cooker to boil the water in on a cheap hot plate.
The tube sets over the top fixture of the cooker with the valve open to allow the steam to vent out and up into the pipe. PVC pipe up top like here. Cheap to set up and they heat up quickly. Little water is used as compared to a tank,,a qt or less vs just less than 3gal like I use in my tank. No pipe burner needed, no gas hook up, ect.

The guys in the video are actually slow rust bluing, but are using the humidity box (cardboard box set up) to accelerate the rusting process. Same idea as leaving them in the shower after turning the hot water on for a few minutes and then leaving the door closed as I mentioned in the other post. An hour to 2 hour depending on the conditions and the metal, soln, etc.
Notice he had only a very light coating of rust that he mentioned was not easily seen on camera (about 40:00 into the video).
Same as I mentioned above,,that's all you need to get a layer of blue color. No need for the heavy red orange colored layer of rust to form.
 
This is all fascinating, I really want to look into the express rust I think.

Ok, regarding the concept of boiling an already rusted gun- I ended up NOT buying this pistol, but I strongly considered it. This is the current condition:
pix458650998.jpg

pix963561207.jpg


Would this have been a good candidate simply degrease, and then boil (turn the brown into black rust)? I looked, and that was got me thinking about it. The patina seems pretty even, and I get the impression that if you broke it down, boiled it, and then oiled it back up, it might look nice.
 
How about involuntary rust bluing? I carried a stainless Colt Pocket Nine in a holster outside of my vest, inside my uniform shirt for years. Would remove and wipe down with oily cloth daily. No problems, except the rear exposed area of the extractor, which was silver colored at one time, eventually turned a beautiful blue over the years.
 
Brownell's sells a 'carding brush'. It has very fine stainless bristles and works better than 0000 steel wool.
Maybe for you but, I've considered doing this from the perspective of a fixed income(as cheaply as possible).
Steve
 
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