S&W .44 triple lock identification

mactheaxe84

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Ok. I have come across this pistol and through research have learned that it is one of the finest made by Smith and Wesson. What I don't know is when. If it's an original my guess is it's been refinished by the factory.

Here is the info considering I am unable to post pics.

serial number is 6**1. It is nickel plated with what looks to be original grips. 6 1/2 inch barrel. Nickel plating is 95%. There are a few dings here and there. The number inside the yolk is 10 b. the frame and cylinder have matching serial numbers. There is a stamped star on the back of the cylinder a cartridge hole from the serial number. Does this mean anything?

the patent dates on the top of the barrel go from . March 27. 1994 to Feb 6 2006.

What can you tell me about this piece based on the information I've given and is there anymore information you require for what you need? What is the last date of manufacture for it and lastly What is the projected value of this Pistol?
 
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Im sorry, im not sure what TL is. And i would be happy to send pics for someone to post.
 
I'd love to see some pictures too, if this can be managed. Is it in your possession?

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it is in my hands as we speak. I have just taken some pictures of it with my phone but not sure how to post the pictures. Like muley gil said. I would like to find someone a little more familiar with this forum to post the pictures for me.
 
what would make that unfortunate? Not original? what does that do for the value?
 
Well, I consider it unfortunate because it's no longer original, but since it's been refinished it's already different from factory condition.
Have you pulled the stocks and checked the frame for additional stamped numbers, etc? They'll be on the left side of grip frame.

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I have. I might need to recheck but I didn't find anything. What would that mean for the value on it?
 
As a general rule of thumb, the value is cut in half--because of the refinish. There's some more rules of thumb: It appears one refinish is factory---as witnessed by the four line address, so maybe the value is cut by 35-40% instead of half. Then there's the question of has there been more than one refinish? I have no idea, and would have to sit and stare---and then may very well still not know. On the other hand, a Triplelock is a Triplelock is a Triplelock------and the lust factor is high! (That would be the demand part of supply and demand which drives that value thing up some.) Finally---the four line address---the first I've ever seen (or at least taken note of); but have heard tales of such for years------which is at least more than a little bit interesting.

And there you have it-------much ado about nothing!! Make that nothing about much ado.

Ralph Tremaine
 
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Congrats!!

You have a very nice example of a ".44 Hand Ejector-1st Model" also marketed as the .44 Military and nicknamed the Triple Lock by collectors. AND YOU GOT IT FOR A BARGAIN BASEMENT PRICE!

Value is between $1000 and $2000; depending on finish history, so we need more info from you to pin that down, see below.


FINISH:

1. First is to establish if the original finish was blue or nickel. 'B' or 'N' stamp: ahead of pre war serial #s on the barrel flat (or in shroud), rear face of yoke, on rear face of cyl by itself, behind the extractor star, and by itself on right side grip frame on commercial guns (only on left side grip frame on post war models) indicates an original Blue finish or an original Nickel finish based upon the corresponding letter. The occasional absence (more prevalent after 1930) of either the 'B' or 'N' can also indicate that it left the factory nickeled. (Also not to be confused with a larger B behind the barrel serial # for the Bright blue optional finish in the post war era - early ‘50s when satin blue was standard.)
“I've seen nickel Triple Locks with N stamps. I've seen them without it, too. Pre-war nickel guns MAY have an N, or they may simply lack B's. Regards, Lee Jarrett”
If the gun was originally shipped with a nickel finish, that's a little better value wise than if shipped blue.
So tell us what you see?

2. Is there a star on the butt of the grip frame following the serial #?
Stars indicate return to the factory for something; rework or refinish, etc. The star on the cyl could mean a replaced cyl at the factory.

Stars are usually accompanied by a date stamped using all numerical digits on the left side of the grip under the grip. Please check for that. We can't help you w/o good information and careful observations. NOTE: Observing stampings for accuracy or even existence, especially on penciled stocks, requires magnification, bright light, and an attitude that it is there!

As observed above, the 4 line address on the right, front frame side was a bad post WW II practice at the factory until it was stopped, but it is certain evidence that the factory got the gun back at least once.

However the polished flat pin head shown on the left frame side just in front of the left grip top indicates it was refinished at least once out side of the factory. That pin is supposed to have a domed head and will still have, when factory refinished. So we likely have at least two refinishes.


SERIAL NUMBERS:

Here are the 6 (or 7 on Triple Locks) pre war fixed sight frame serial # locations which are also the locations remaining after WW II thru ~1956 to look for (not including the 3 stamped serial # locations for pre war and early post war Transitional models with pre war target sights):

1. Gun butt - or forestrap on I frames/single shots with grips that cover the butt

2. Barrel - bottom of barrel or in extractor shroud

3. Yoke - on rear face only visible thru a chamber with a flashlight

4. Extractor star - backside

5. Cylinder - rear face

6. Right stock only* - on back (except most post war target grips because individual fitting not required), penciled on Triple Locks

7. Mid-lock cam plate – “Triple Locks” only, in any caliber (up to all 5 digits).
* Stamped since 1857, stock #s, almost exclusively on right panel only, changed to penciled #s c. 1900 and back to stamped #s in 1929. Pre war penciled S/Ns are in the top half of the stock near the backstrap and read with the stock oriented with the back edge down. Sometimes a photo like this one is needed to “see” the penciled # as shown below:
CEFC779E-8260-4C35-BD54-AFCF0DD914A1.jpg


Your grips have the genuine gold plated over brass indicating it was shipped after 1910 when the medallions were introduced on the walnut stocks, (if they have the matching serial #).


BACKGROUND:

The Triple Lock is the Holy Grail and very first N frame (large) Hand Ejector and .44 special Revolver! Officially it's a ".44 Hand Ejector 1st Model 1908 Military - New Century". It was introduced in 1908 along with the brand new .44 S&W Special cartridge. It has the unique feature of a third cyl lock in front of the cylinder, a feature not seen before or since. This revolver is the pinnacle of S&W engineering design and craftsmanship. Only 15,375 were made, most chambered in .44 Spl and a few in other calibers, until discontinued in 1915 and replaced with the 2nd Model which did not have the 3rd lock or the barrel shroud.

An additional ~6000 were made as the “.455 Hand Ejector 1st Model” chambered for the .455 Mk II cartridge under contract with the British Commonwealth for WW I, for a grand total of ~20836 Triple Locks.

The three locks are under the barrel in the extractor rod shroud, back of the cyl, and the 3rd lock, hence the nickname "Triple Lock", in the yoke at the front of the cyl. They all release simultaneously with a push of the cyl release thumb piece. The locking pin is sprung to the front, opposite from any other N frame, therefore there is no 'divot' in the TL recoil shield unlike all other N frames.

The front and middle locks are shown below. The TL craftsmanship is superb and a marvel of precision hand fitting, the panache of yesteryear that we will never see again:

IMG_3883.jpg


IMG_3878.jpg



TLs have a classic old feature to keep the cyl open when loading/unloading and prevent it from slamming closed if the gun is tipped to the right slightly and scratching the recoil shield with the extractor star.

Important Note: if you remove the yoke beware of the cyl detent pin and spring! If you aren't aware, it can launch across the room to no man knows where! If it's missing, that's likely what happened to it.

Plunger shown here in bottom of yoke and has a spring underneath it:

YokeDetentClose-up-.jpg


Looking forward to your additional information,
 
Okay. Ill try to answer and provide as much information asked for by Hondo44 as I can.

For the finish. I couldnt find anything on the barrel flat or shroud or cylinder. I did however find 10 7 R on the bottom left inside grip which would indicate to me refinish.

There is no star on the butt of the grip frame.

The top of the barrel indicates to me it has been recently refinished. I will write it as follows:
Smith and Wesson Springfield Mass U.S.A Patent March 27 94 May 21 96 Aug 4 96 Dec 22 96 Oct 8 01 Dec 3 01 Feb 6 06. That is what is confusing to me. considering the low serial number and the fact this thing wasnt produced after 1915....?

It seems to me, if I am using logic correctly this pistol has been refinished at minimum twice.

I hope I have provided enough info and if I haven't please let me know. Thanks.
 
With all this discussion about refinishing (and how many times) and the effect this has had on collectibility, etc, etc, etc, I just want to sayWelcome to the S&W Forum and congratulations on entering the fray with such a neat gun as well. Regardless of its history, your Triple Lock is a great gun to own, will be lots of fun to shoot, and in spite of any of its negatives (real or perceived) rather valuable. I have every reason to believe that its worst detractors in this thread would break their arms getting out their wallets to give you two or three or more times what you paid for it (I know I would!) and it is yours to enjoy owning and shooting, something very few of us can say. My brother-at-arms Hondo44 has given you a great summary of the history of the breed and if you really want to find out even more, I would highly recommend looking at the pertinent portions of Standard Catalog of Smith & Wesson in either the 3rd or the brand new 4th edition. It's worth knowing as much as you can about a rare or unusual gun, and you are in truly rarified atmosphere! Congratulations again.

Regards,
Green Frog
 
Regardless of provenance, it's an honest old Triple Lock.

And you beat my .32-20 car gun deal all hollow.

Sent from my SM-J700T using Tapatalk
 
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I doubt it has been refinished more than once.
I've seen several TLs refinished in the early 70s that were roll marked and buffed without removing the studs, obviously leaving the stud ends flat.
Another thing they often did- the sides of the front sight appear to be sand blasted. That was also common on 70s refinishes.

At this point, the items affecting value the most will be bore condition and mechanical condition.
Most likely a $900-1250 gun. It has to fall into the "HIGH grade shooter" class. The purists will be put off by the 4 line, flat studs, worn grips, lack of case colors, and frosty front sight (if I'm correct about that).
 
The reason I said refinished twice is because it has the four line address which someone in here told me that was a practice after WWII that they stopped. That is the first refinish. The second is from the dates between 94 and 06 on the top of the barrel which is why I have assumed refinished twice.

As far as the barrel is concerned I gave it a good cleaning last night and took my paper for light reflection to see the threads. I would have to say I saw some minor pitting near the back 3/4 down the barrel. It isnt pristine and shiny. It seems to have had some use and left without a cleaning in my opinion. It isn't horrible but it isn't mint.

As far as the action is concerned it is tight. It is the nicest action I have ever felt in a pistol period. No creep or travel in the trigger whatsoever. It seems to have maybe a 2 lb trigger with the hammer cocked and as soon as the trigger moves the hammer falls. the cylinder action is smooth and crisp. There is nothing wrong with the action whatsoever. To me that is the best part of this pistol.

I went today to my local sporting goods store looking for some .44 special only to find they don't carry it in store but they can order me some.

To reiterate, the four line address along with the dates on the top of the barrel is what is throwing me off on this thing as far as how many times it has been refinished and why they would add patent dates on the top of the barrel on such an old pistol.
 
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