S&W 442 key holing

[DanielF]

What's up guys. My friend has this almost new 442 snubby that I wanna purchase from him but we went to the range yesterday and put 50 rounds threw it and every other round tumbled threw the paper. It baffled him and me both. The ammo was cheap PMC Bronze 158 RN lead. We bought some PMC 136 FMJ and it seemed better but still had issues with bullet tumble. I've never owned a snub nose before. Are they just ammo sensitive because of the short barrel or do you think there's a problem. The guns under warranty and he said he would send it in before we traded but I was just wondering if this is a quirky snubby issue or an actual problem. If the gun requires hot ammo to properly stabilize then that's fine but I'm Leary if this is an actual issue. Any advice is appreciated thanks.


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[qballwill]

Are you sure it was key holing? The reason I ask is I've shot at target with a ragged hole in the backstop and if the bullet hit in a spot where the hole was, it left a ragged asymmetrical hole. Just something to double check.

 

[R*E]

I've shot paper targets that gave the appearance of keyholing but I'm sure it was the way the paper was ripping.

 

[MattO]

I've noticed Key holing on many snub nosed guns at the range. Which is why I prefer a min of 3.5" barrel on my guns.

A friend of mine has three snub nose .38's and all of them keyhole. When we go to the range I shoot my .38's and he shoots his, we hit the same paper and it's easy to tell which are my hits and which are his.

 

[ken158]

Thinking leaded up barrel

 

[Peak53]

Something is amiss, so to speak. I've never had this problem with the 642 and 36 I shoot regularly, at least at ranges I can hit the paper. At what distance does this keyholing occur?

 

[DanielF]

Thinking leaded up barrel

Lead fowling makes sense. All he's ever shot threw it is lead round nose. The FMJ we bought at the range was the first jacketed ammo he's ever put threw it. So I guess the next step would be to scrub down the barrel and re-check. We looked at some of the paper targets he shot right after he bought it and they were perfectly round which would indicate fowled rifling. I have very little experience with lead bullets I've always shot FMJ or JHP.


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[DanielF]

Something is amiss, so to speak. I've never had this problem with the 642 and 36 I shoot regularly, at least at ranges I can hit the paper. At what distance does this keyholing occur?

The target was at about 15 feet give or take a foot.


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[GaryS]

I've never had that problem with a .38 revolver, but I did have it with my Model 18 when using lead .22LR. That was the first, last, and only time I made that mistake.

When I looked at the barrel, I thought I had ruined my fine revolver. It took me about half an hour of scrubbing to get all of the fouling out of the barrel.

I would use jacketed ammo only. Personally, I prefer ammo in the 130-135gr range for my 642, but others will no doubt have other opinions.

 

[DanielF]

I've never had that problem with a .38 revolver, but I did have it with my Model 18 when using lead .22LR. That was the first, last, and only time I made that mistake.

When I looked at the barrel, I thought I had ruined my fine revolver. It took me about half an hour of scrubbing to get all of the fouling out of the barrel.

I would use jacketed ammo only. Personally, I prefer ammo in the 130-135gr range for my 642, but others will no doubt have other opinions.

Were the bullets tumbling after the rifling got choked with lead? And did you just use regular bore solvent to get the lead out?


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[Vulcan Bob]

Severe leading essentially turns your revolver into a smooth bore and with no rifleing present to spin the bullet it will tumble as soon as it leaves the bore. Back light the bore with a flashlight at the forcing cone and take a look down the bore, if you cannot see any or very little rifleing that's the problem. Regular bore solvent will not help at all. One cheap and easy way is to find "Chore Boy" brass pot scrubbers and cut em to get a long strand of it and wind it around used bore brush and have at it. It will take a bit of scrubbing! Some of the brass pot scrubbers use steel plated with brass, do not use them! Check with a magnet to be sure.

 

[bigsteve113]

I've shot a lot of lead and jacketed bullets through a lot of j frames over the last 32 years. Through LCR's and SP101's too . I've never had a keyholing problem.

 

[Bob T]

Have a Model 12-3 Airweight snubbie and at 25 yds with 158gr LSWC's nice crisp holes. Never shot factory out of it though.

 

[riverrat38]

Paper sometimes tears that way with round nose. Not much cutting action. It happens less when using heavy paper or light card board. (Tag board).
Lead fouling in barrel would do as said above, negate the rifling.

Best,
Rick

 

[CajunBass]

I thought I had this same problem a couple of times. The range we used to go to didn't use cardboard backing. You just stapled the paper targer up between two boards, with nothing behind it but air. Targets ripped badly and I thought it keyholing also. Turns out it was just the way the target tore. I discovered it didn't do it when I was using cardboard targets. Stapling paper targets over the cardboard stopped it. Nice clean holes.

 

[scooter123]

Paper has a "grain direction" and this can cause certain types of bullets to produce what appears to be Keyholing. The bullet types that this is most distinct with are those featuring a Round Nose and I'd be willing to bet the ammo that was used was in fact Round Nose. If you are concerned about Keyholing the best method to be sure is to use a fresh cardboard backer or just shoot fresh cardboard. If that isn't convenient then the other alternative is to use ammunition that is loaded with Wadcutter or Semi Wadcutter bullets because Wadcutters were originally produced to provide clean round holes in a paper target.

 

[Louchia]

I also have a 442 38 spl and shoot regularly. Never had a keyhole problem. I have had key hole problems with 22lr only because of leas fouling.
My experience with any fire arm is that lack of cleaning causes issues.
I clean after every range trip.

 

[GaryS]

Yes. As Vulcan Bob said the leading makes the rifling essentially non existent and the bullets just tumble.

I think I just used Hoppes and a lot of elbow grease to get the fouling out.

Were the bullets tumbling after the rifling got choked with lead? And did you just use regular bore solvent to get the lead out?


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[BE Mike]

Some folks use the term keyholing to describe a hole where the bullet doesn't go in directly straight, so leave a little scuff. True keyholing is when the bullet goes in completely sideways. Which is it?

 

[Vulcan Bob]

I've shot a lot of lead and jacketed bullets through a lot of j frames over the last 32 years. Through LCR's and SP101's too . I've never had a keyholing problem.

Some problems are self inflicted, about five years ago having forgotten how soft the Hornady swaged bullets were "hadn't used em in a very long time". I loaded some 158gr SWC's up in the .357 Magnum to a sedate 1,050 fps to shoot out a six inch M-19. With the third shot I noticed a big/odd hole in the target, made safe and went down range to inspect the target, a full side on bullet profile was observed. Then the light bulb flickered on, went back to the bench made sure I cleared the 19 and with opened cylinder peered down the bore, smooth as a baby's butt with no rifling to be seen, only three shots needed. A old lesson relearned! Well let's us say the Lewis Lead Remover got a good work out. So if you work at it, it can be done and maybe long term use of that particular ammo in that particular revolver produced severe leading. Or it very well have been weird looking holes in that target!