S&W 617 shoots high

KingArthur

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I took it out today for the first time and for the lift of me couldn't get it to hit POA with sight adjustments. The grouping was nice but they're about 4 inch high...the best I could get was 3" above.

The gun is totally stock shooting the Federal Match bulk pack. Has any one had or heard of the 617 shooting high? Any thing recommended for me to try?

btw: 6 inch barrel
 
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Lighter, faster bullets should shoot lower because they stay in the barrel a shorter time than the heavier bullets.
If switching ammo does not work call S&W and and ask them to send a higher front sight.
 
I can't imagine changing bullet weights making a significant difference with the tiny amount of recoil in a 48 ounce .22.

S&W sells rear sight blade kits in different heights for under $15. Instructions for installing a new rear blade are in reply #3 to 500 Magnum Nut's FAQ sticky in the S&W-Smithing forum. http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-smithing/94072-faqs.html
 
I took it out today for the first time and for the lift of me couldn't get it to hit POA with sight adjustments. The grouping was nice but they're about 4 inch high...the best I could get was 3" above.

The gun is totally stock shooting the Federal Match bulk pack. Has any one had or heard of the 617 shooting high? Any thing recommended for me to try?

btw: 6 inch barrel

Could be ammo. Btw what distance were you shooting. I have a new 617 4" and it shoots dead on at 25' with Federal Wally World bulk ammo. However, in the same session, it shot low and to the left with CCI MiniMags, but the group was tighter with the MiniMags. At 50' it did not seem to like CCI SV as the group opened up considerably.

Also, check that the rear sight blade is actually moving when you turn the screws, and make sure that the barrel is aligned correctly.
 
I can't imagine changing bullet weights making a significant difference with the tiny amount of recoil in a 48 ounce .22.

S&W sells rear sight blade kits in different heights for under $15. Instructions for installing a new rear blade are in reply #3 to 500 Magnum Nut's FAQ sticky in the S&W-Smithing forum. http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-smithing/94072-faqs.html

Well it does seem to matter. Winchester has an iPhone/iPad ballistic calculator app. Check it out.it graphically displays the path of a bull it under different conditions.
 
Different ammo shoots to different points of impact. We all expect that, but with only a 4 grain variation in affordable .22 LR bullet weights, the different POIs ordinarily are well within the adjustment range of K22 sights. If I couldn't adjust elevation for my favorite Fed. Bulk pack .22 LR, I'd replace the rear sight blade. Compared to buying CCI Mini-Mags or any brand of Std. Vel. I'd save the cost of the blade kit in a month or two.

I haven't seen a ballistic calculator that was worth a hoot for sighting in hand held revolvers at the typical 25 yard range. Ballistic charts predict factory 246 grain .44 special will drop more than the same weight .44 mag bullet when fired out of a level barrel, but in fact the .44 spl hits higher because the barrel rises more before the .44 spl exits. The ballistic charts can only predict that if both were sighted in for long range the .44 spl would be following a more arched trajectory.
 
I have a 617 and it's accurate with any ammo I've used. Of, course the adjustable rear sight for elevation and windage might do the trick but I haven't touched it. Recently, put a red dot scope on it and it gave me even better groups than I was getting, which were pretty good to start with.
 
If worse comes to worse, you may need a higher front sight. Since the front sight blade is pinned, this isn't too hard, but not as easy as the quick release front sights on other Smiths. You didn't mention the distance you are shooting, but if you are shooting at 25 yds, and the sight radius is approximately 8", then you need a front sight something like .035" higher. Going higher than that would probably be desirable. You can then file it back down a bit if necessary.
 
The only variable, other than the shooter, is the rear site blade. The blade that came from the factory is either a .146 or .126. a shorter blade is available (down to .106 I think). Leave the front sight alone.
 
I took it out today for the first time and for the lift of me couldn't get it to hit POA with sight adjustments. The grouping was nice but they're about 4 inch high...the best I could get was 3" above.

The gun is totally stock shooting the Federal Match bulk pack. Has any one had or heard of the 617 shooting high? Any thing recommended for me to try?

btw: 6 inch barrel

Hello -S&W don't put them out the door like that. Get someone else to shoot it. S&W will fix if you have a problem. I HAVE NEVER had a problem they did not correct unless it was my fault. I shoot my 22 pistols @ 6:oo @ 25 & @ 50 center with lr.
 
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Anyone know the stock sight height on the 617? I am wanting to change the sight anyway because its hard to see the black sights on some targets and I may need to change the height on the front or the rear. What do ya'll recommend?
 
Gold front

I had a smith put a SDM gold front site on my 617 / 4 inch barrel.

It looks like a beacon up there.

He can tell you what rear blade you will need they are very reasonable and easy to install. The SDM front sight & rear blade were installed for under $100.

May sound like big money but it was done right.

Dan :D
 
Rather than rely on a parts list description of the rear sight blade height, I would measure the existing blade. Then I'd replace it with a lower white outline blade and paint a white dot on the patridge front. However, fiber optic front sights are very popular, and if you install one or a gold bead you'll need to coordinate changing both blades. To measure your rear blade screw it off to the side as far as it will go and use a micrometer or a set of calipers.
 
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Its your gun and we really don't care what you do with it. Common sense seems to indicate the first things you try are ones that don't involve modifying the gun. You've been told to change ammo, and I agree with that. You can find 22 caliber in bullet weights from 36 to 60 grains. That's a pretty good weight range. And then with the common 36 and 40 grain bullets, you can drive them from just under the speed of sound to the hyper velocity rounds.

22 caliber guns are kind of unique. Some seem to do better with one brand, weight, or velocity and others don't do well with it at all. Identical guns other than serial number.

Before I'd spend $100 on "repairs" that may not be necessary, I'd go to the nearest well stocked gun shop (good luck with that) and buy a variety of different ammo. Make sure you get different velocities.

Then just go to the range, taking along a supply of targets and a pen. Record where each seems to want to group.

It would shock me if you didn't see 4" differences in elevation between them. You'll also see differences in how they group. Most of us try to include Federal 550s just because they're cheap, fairly dependable, and not too dirty. The 60 grain Aquila rounds are the oddballs, buy its nice to own a box just to test with. The hypers, like Stingers and what not won't shoot accurately for me, but they're out of the barrel so fast they normally are much lower than the standard rounds. A lot of folks like the CCI offerings. Test them, maybe they'll work well for you.

Changing the gun is the last thing you do, not the first.
 
Its your gun and we really don't care what you do with it. Common sense seems to indicate the first things you try are ones that don't involve modifying the gun. You've been told to change ammo, and I agree with that. You can find 22 caliber in bullet weights from 36 to 60 grains. That's a pretty good weight range. And then with the common 36 and 40 grain bullets, you can drive them from just under the speed of sound to the hyper velocity rounds.

22 caliber guns are kind of unique. Some seem to do better with one brand, weight, or velocity and others don't do well with it at all. Identical guns other than serial number.

Before I'd spend $100 on "repairs" that may not be necessary, I'd go to the nearest well stocked gun shop (good luck with that) and buy a variety of different ammo. Make sure you get different velocities.

Then just go to the range, taking along a supply of targets and a pen. Record where each seems to want to group.

It would shock me if you didn't see 4" differences in elevation between them. You'll also see differences in how they group. Most of us try to include Federal 550s just because they're cheap, fairly dependable, and not too dirty. The 60 grain Aquila rounds are the oddballs, buy its nice to own a box just to test with. The hypers, like Stingers and what not won't shoot accurately for me, but they're out of the barrel so fast they normally are much lower than the standard rounds. A lot of folks like the CCI offerings. Test them, maybe they'll work well for you.

Changing the gun is the last thing you do, not the first.

When I was looking to buy this gun I knew I would love it but I never like the Black sights on it at all. Never understood why S&W would put all black on what I would call a expensive target/small game pistol.

I am going to follow his & your advice first before I get the wrong sights. I bought some more ammo today but the only thing I could get my hands on was some Federal 36 grain copper hollow point and for first pack I used was Federal 40 grain solid lead.

I will compare those and see what I get but after really really looking at the barrel...I believe it is canted to the left a little bit. I had someone else look at it and they said the same thing.

So you are right about a problem with the gun itself but not sure if that would cause it to shot high.
 
My suggestion, a lower rear blade and a spot of paint, costs less than $15. If you ever want to restore it to original, the paint can be cleaned off and the original rear blade reinstalled for the price of a windage cross bolt and nut. No one could tell it had been changed then restored. Unlike the rear blade, when pinned front sights are replaced, you can ordinarily see that the pin was driven out. However, if I wanted a different front sight that wouldn't bother me because except for the no-dashes, 617s are shooters, not collector items.

The barrel threads are right hand. It your barrel is screwed in slightly past 12 O'clock, it is canted to the left. That will move POI to the right, not up.
 
I wouldn't even try ammo outside the normal 36 to 40 grain range. Using ammo outside this range greatly inhibits your ammo choice down the road and the cost you will pay for ammo. Your gun was made to shoot ammo with bullets in this range. If it won't, something is wrong. As another poster said, let someone else shoot your gun and see if their results are the same as yours. If they get the same results, send the gun back or change the sights.

As far as the black sights go, they are prefered by most target shooters. When using a six o'clock hold on a white paper target with a black bullseye, nothing beats black sights. Nothing. The 617 is sold mostly as a target revolver, hence the black sights. I agree they are less than perfect for field use. I prefer a red ramp front sight for field use, but your needs may vary. Some folks just put orange fingernail polish of the front sight.
 
How do I measure the rear sight. Do I remove it and if so do just turn the Rear to the right until it comes off? Or do I measure from the top to the bottom of the view cut? I measured the front and its a .165
 
Hello -S&W don't put them out the door like that. Get someone else to shoot it. S&W will fix if you have a problem. I HAVE NEVER had a problem they did not correct unless it was my fault. I shoot my 22 pistols @ 6:oo @ 25 & @ 50 center with lr.

Oh really? -you'd be surprised what gets shipped.They do indeed put them out the door.
My new 18-7,while perfect in every other way,shot extremely high when I first got it,well beyong adjustments(and not my first revolver)As I always had a desire for a gold bead front sight,and they are only available in the next higher size than the original one,so I asked Smith to install one as part of the remedy.In conjunction with this,they changed the rear sight blade too.It now looks great,shoots great,and the only expense that I incurred with this essentially warranty job was $30 for the better front sight.
 
I had the same problem with a used 617 no-dash I got a good deal on...perhaps its why I got a good deal. Called S&W and they sent me a shipping tag and I returned it on their dime and got it back with (I believe) a taller front sight blade. I forgot how long it took, but a couple of weeks at worst. You have a great gun that came out of the factory with a problem. Get them to fix it.
 
To measure the rear sight height, screw it all the way out on the left side but do not break off the cross bolt, just enough to be able to get a caliper on it to measure the overall height. I would think the blade height on a 17 would be the same also. I'm not home now so don't have access to my guns or I would measure for you.
 
To measure the rear sight height, screw it all the way out on the left side but do not break off the cross bolt, just enough to be able to get a caliper on it to measure the overall height. I would think the blade height on a 17 would be the same also. I'm not home now so don't have access to my guns or I would measure for you.

I am gonna check it
 
How do I measure the rear sight. Do I remove it and if so do just turn the Rear to the right until it comes off? Or do I measure from the top to the bottom of the view cut? I measured the front and its a .165

The rear sight blade on the S&W Micrometer click rear sight will not just "come off," and removal results in breaking the windage screw as the nut is staked in place. If it is removed, take great care not to lose the tiny springs and detents. Re-installation will require a new windage nut and screw and the two pronged tool and the staking tool, along with a good bench vise and appropriate padding and non-marring hammer, etc. I only point this out so you don't do something to damage your gun unintentionally.

I forgot to mention that sometimes adjusting your point of aim may make a difference. For example, are you using a 6 o'clock hold?

Good luck. :)
 
The rear sight blade on the S&W Micrometer click rear sight will not just "come off," and removal results in breaking the windage screw as the nut is staked in place. If it is removed, take great care not to lose the tiny springs and detents. Re-installation will require a new windage nut and screw and the two pronged tool and the staking tool, along with a good bench vise and appropriate padding and non-marring hammer, etc. I only point this out so you don't do something to damage your gun unintentionally.

I forgot to mention that sometimes adjusting your point of aim may make a difference. For example, are you using a 6 o'clock hold?

Good luck. :)

I did use the 6 0'clock hold along with the rear sight all the way down and that was better.
 
I measured the rear sight and it is .140

So...My front sight is .165 and rear is .140 and it's shooting high.

What rear would I try?
 
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I measured the rear sight and it is .140

So...My front sight is .165 and rear is .140 and it's shooting high.

What rear would I try?

I didn't reread the whole thread, but I don't recall you ever providing the distance you fired from. Without that we can't do the geometry. Tom C (above, reply #10) calculated you need a 0.035" change presuming the distance was 25 yards and you have an 8" sight radius. I suspect error in your measurement or the corner of your blade slopes or is rounded a little. I think the 0.146" height Tom C posted is its advertised size. That makes the shorted available blade, 0.106" the best choice.
 
Gold Sight

Here's the SDM sight page.

Sight Correction Calculations

There is a sight calculator there.

If you are uneasy about what to order or installation I would take it to a Smith.

I will vouch for how sweet the gold sights are. They are like a beacon to me.

Dan :D
 
I didn't reread the whole thread, but I don't recall you ever providing the distance you fired from. Without that we can't do the geometry. Tom C (above, reply #10) calculated you need a 0.035" change presuming the distance was 25 yards and you have an 8" sight radius. I suspect error in your measurement or the corner of your blade slopes or is rounded a little. I think the 0.146" height Tom C posted is its advertised size. That makes the shorted available blade, 0.106" the best choice.

I was shooting only 7 yards.
 
I believe that makes the problem worse than any of us thought. How tight were your groups?
 

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