S&W 625-JM Catastrophic Failure/Accident

[mmhoium]

I should have left an update here after I found out - guess I let it slip.

Smith told me that they would gladly replace my 625 for $750... In all honesty, it was likely a user error so they had no responsibility to replace it, so it made sense. I will tell you that it was like pulling teeth to get them to send mine back; they really wanted me to buy a new one.

Currently my 3/4's of a 625JM hangs above my reloading bench as a constant safety reminder. It's worth more to me that way then to toss it.

ghitch, when I did shoot it, I really enjoyed it. Shoots great. Although when I eventually replace it's spot in my safe its going to be a 25-2 more than likely. I've had more exposure to older P&R Smiths since and I tend to prefer them - that's just me. I wouldn't let my bad experience shy you away from buying one - you will love it.

-M

 

[BoulderTroll]

Like everyone else, I'm glad you were OK. Guns are very replacable. This is the first time I came across this thread and I was shocked at the photos.

Accidents can always happen, but it reafirms (sp) my opinion on reloading...I won't do it. I prefer to shoot less (because of the greater expense), and have it all be factory, than to shoot more with reloads. I simply don't trust myself with some things and reloading is one of them.

 

[TACC1]

I'm glad you came out of this with all of you intact. TACC1

 

[scooter123]

One of the things that has always amazed me is how few people have actually been hurt serously when a modern firarm blows up. Fact is that statistically we are pretty safe even when we do make a mistake and cook up a massive load.

As for reloading and it's risks, again you have to consider the statistics. The OP has probably reloaded many many thousands of rounds before making this one single mistake, so I won't fault him for that one error and I suspect it won't ever happen again for him. Personally, I'm not yet reloading but will someday. When I do take that step I plan on making it a 100% distraction free exercise, no phones turned on and a 100% do not disturb rule in effect.

 

[ghitch75]

I should have left an update here after I found out - guess I let it slip.

Smith told me that they would gladly replace my 625 for $750... In all honesty, it was likely a user error so they had no responsibility to replace it, so it made sense. I will tell you that it was like pulling teeth to get them to send mine back; they really wanted me to buy a new one.

Currently my 3/4's of a 625JM hangs above my reloading bench as a constant safety reminder. It's worth more to me that way then to toss it.

ghitch, when I did shoot it, I really enjoyed it. Shoots great. Although when I eventually replace it's spot in my safe its going to be a 25-2 more than likely. I've had more exposure to older P&R Smiths since and I tend to prefer them - that's just me. I wouldn't let my bad experience shy you away from buying one - you will love it.

-M

ok M thanks for gettin' back on this.....i'll go ahead and get it to go with my 25-2 and 22-4...

sure glad you weren't hurt....

 

[surveyor47]

I too have not had time to read all 11 pages, but my experience with the Dillon RL550B is that you likely did have a double charge. Most of the time, 1 case with no powder (squib) is telltale that the next round out of the press was a double charge; however, this is not always the case. If the loader hangs up, usually with a primer tray hanging up about half way back, it sometimes happens that the case gets a partial charge. If you follow through after clearing the primer tray with a 2nd stroke, you can get a double or close to it. For this reason, if the loader hangs up, I remove the 1st and 2nd station cases, check the 3rd station case and finish the 4th station case. I then fix the problem and go from there.

It is also possible to double seat bullets, at least in the 38 Special and 357 Magnum. It happens when the seating die gets full of grease and a bullet hangs up. Telltale is an empty case at the 4th station. The stuck bullet will drive the bullet you just inserted all the way to the bottom of the case, compressed load- KABOOM!

Most of my problems with the RL550B have to do with the primer seating system. Primers get stuck on top of the slider tray and near the press ram. A lot of attention has to be paid to the primer feed adjustment screw.

A digital scale is a worthy investment. To date, I have found 100% of my squibs and doubles- and I have weighed and pulled many bullets in the process.

Don't ever discount the ability of a RL550B to double or squib. This is the reason I advocate turret presses for beginners.

 

[617X10]

Man, I'd be ready to sell that Dillon and get a single-stage press after that. It's probably better that you were using a revolver and not a 1911 when that happened, since it looks like the top strap and cylinder failed and were thrown up and away. You wouldn't have been so lucky with a slide, magazine, and grips between the kaboom and your hand.

 

[PhilOhio]

I'm so glad you were not injured, Mmhoium. I agree with Surveyor47 and the double charge theorists. It is very easy to throw a double charge with a progressive, and the leverage is so good you might never feel it when seating the bullet.

I loaded for over 40 years with a single stage Pacific press, completely wearing it out. I went directly to a Dillon RL550B, and the shock of so many things happening on each stroke was so great I felt like a rank amateur.

Then I got too comfortable with it, loading umpteen boxes of 9mm and .45 ACP per hour. That's when clearing fired primer residue buildup from the primer feed slide causes glitches, interrupting your rythm. It usually requires moving the manual advance backward one space. Then, if you forget to advance it again, you are set up for a double charge, if the case/powder combination permits it without overflowing.

On one occasion, I had a bad feeling, not sure whether I might have done that. It was with 9mm, a low charge of Bullseye, and bullets seated far out to feed in a Luger. I decided to err on the part of caution and pulled about 30 loaded rounds. Sure enough, one had a heavily compressed double charge. I guess I saved a nice S/42 Luger.

I recently bought a very nice, new, heavily built Lee single stage press. I use it for almost everything, except when loading large quantities of .45 ACP for a Thompson. Then I load cautiously, carefully, with no distractions, and with great respect for the process. I know that, despite having reloaded for 51 years, I can make a dangerous mistake. And a progressive press, any one of them, dramatically increases the possibility. The Dillon is a wonderful thing, but I strongly urge new reloaders not to start with one, or at least to have a nice and inexpensive single stage press to learn on, and for small quantity reloading.

The odds are about 99.9% that the blow-up in this thread was a result of an overcharge and high pressure, and any one of us could do it. It is not necessarily a matter of careless or any user fault, other than being human. Remember the bumper sticker, "**** happens". (Ever see that one, with the asterisks?)

If you read the NTSB aircraft accident reports, many of them detail how highly experienced, high time airline pilots with military backgrounds are briefly distracted or overlook some minor factor, and the result is many deaths.

So don't throw away your single stage presses. It's reassuring to charge cases one-at-a-time with an old Lyman powder measure, have them in a loading block under good light, and look for overcharges or undercharges. I never missed one for over 40 years, until that time I almost did so with the Dillon.

 

[Vartarg]

Familiar

Although I haven't read all of the thread, I did read the first several pages, and am glad the OP gave us an update.

I Kaboomed a Glock 21 about 10 years ago.....wrecked the barrel and blew the mag out of the bottom of the gun. It was a night firing exercise, so it was pretty spectacular My right hand was banged up a bit, but otherwise I was able to walk away.

I was loading with a Dillon Square Deal and no doubt had a double charge. Like the 550, it's not auto-indexing.

Since then I've used single stage presses, until I recently bought a Hornady LNL progressive. Not only is it auto indexing, as a case with powder comes to the bullet loading station, I'm able to look into the case and see the powder.

Still, once you've kaboomed a gun, the memory never goes away, and I'm thankful the OP is safe and sound.

 

[Dave T]

I was loading with a Dillon Square Deal and no doubt had a double charge. Like the 550, it's not auto-indexing.

On the contrary, both of the Square Deal presses I've owned are auto-indexing. For that reason I advise anyone asking for a recommendation to go with the SDB or the 650. I'm not sure how someone would go about double charging a case in a SDB?

Dave

 

[surveyor47]

Man, I'd be ready to sell that Dillon and get a single-stage press after that. It's probably better that you were using a revolver and not a 1911 when that happened, since it looks like the top strap and cylinder failed and were thrown up and away. You wouldn't have been so lucky with a slide, magazine, and grips between the kaboom and your hand.

You know that it is entirely possible to use an RL550B in the same manner as a turret press. I do that a lot with the 45-70. Just load 1 cartridge at a time. That also give you time to figure out what is wrong and adjust the press.

 

[PREMOD70]

The dent on the bullet lying on the ground tells me that the bullet was seated all the way down against the powder by a die or other device while loading the round or by rough handling of the loaded round. The powder detonated blowing the cylinder while the bullet(the obstruction) literally fell from the cylinder unharmed. The key is detonation, not a high pressure burn,JMHO.

 

[PhilOhio]

The dent on the bullet lying on the ground tells me that the bullet was seated all the way down against the powder by a die or other device while loading the round or by rough handling of the loaded round. The powder detonated blowing the cylinder while the bullet(the obstruction) literally fell from the cylinder unharmed. The key is detonation, not a high pressure burn,JMHO.

Premod70, that's a very interesting theory. Care to elaborate? Seems to me it would be next to impossible to accidentally seat a bullet that way, unknowingly, and to leave such a mark. But if this would account for such an accident, wouldn't it be obvious to the shooter that he was loading a really bad round, just from its appearance?

And yes, I know guys who would shoot it anyway, thinking that is the easy and harmless way to get rid of it. But I have to doubt that was the case here.

 

[williamlayton]

At this point in the conversation it is what it is and how and why are armchair conversation.
The satisfaction of knowing that the shooter is unscathed is ample enough satisfaction.
Blessings

 

[WHS 5906]

With a little steel wool, a lot of those scratches will rub out.

 

[redbos]

I saw that happen once, it scared the **** out of me. We just kind of all looked at each other, and we where all right, but a little scared for a moment.

Glad you are unharmed...

 

[M3Stuart]

Glad you are ok!

 

[PREMOD70]

Premod70, that's a very interesting theory. Care to elaborate? Seems to me it would be next to impossible to accidentally seat a bullet that way, unknowingly, and to leave such a mark. But if this would account for such an accident, wouldn't it be obvious to the shooter that he was loading a really bad round, just from its appearance?

And yes, I know guys who would shoot it anyway, thinking that is the easy and harmless way to get rid of it. But I have to doubt that was the case here.

I don't know this guy that had the incident but I do know myself enough to think anything is possible when it comes to reloading cartridges on a progressive reloader. I don't mean to bash progressives but I tried one for several years and through that time I produced several deep seated rounds and one of the problems that I had was misplacing the errant round after I found it. I would continue to reload and for some reason that errant round would find itself back in my good to go bucket. Stuff happens and from my point of view it happens in bunches with the progressive loader, there too many things happening at one time for a pea brain such as myself to keep from making mistakes. I would like to see a picture of the bullet from different angles just to see if I may be on the right track but either way the OP is safe and well.

 

[Maximumbob54]

So is it fixed yet?

 

[amazingflapjack]

I like the previous posters prospective. I remember a similar incident a year or so ago, and it was the same kind of loading set up. The bottom line for me is that, if something like this did happen, I would not want any lingering doubt about what happened, or the least possible. That's why I load them one at a time. And although I don't always do it, I will sometimes weigh a propperly loaded bullet, and then quickly run a hundred or so at a time accross a digital scale to pick up any thing other than small varyations in weight from one to another. go safely. Flapjack.