S&W 625-JM Catastrophic Failure/Accident

[halco46]

Extremely Lucky!!!.

Very HAPPY to hear you weren`t hurt!. This is why I don`t like progressive presses {Just a ME thing}. I still want to scale each load of powder and am not in a hurry to load 5,000 rounds an hour. I also want to VISUALLY inspect each tray to SEE that they are ALL uniform before I begin the final bullet seating operation. I`ve been reloading for over 40years and haven`t had an accident yet {Knock on wood}. Have Patience grasshopper. Your eyes will tell you the Truth.

 

[hd28cw]

gotta be careful with reloads, they are pretty unforgiving

 

[Dale53]

Marvin Gardens;
The blown up guns that the American Rifleman commissioned H.P. White Laboratories to investigate ended in a strong conclusion.

First a bit of history. PPC competition became popular and a bunch of new shooters with scant reloading experience bought Progressive Loaders. The same thing happened when Cowboy Action Shooting started. Lots of unexplained catastrophic failures that looked much like the O.P.'s revolver. However, in the American Rifleman's investigation it was all .38 Special revolvers.

H.P. White determined, that in the case of the .38 Specials that a double charge would not create enough pressure to produce this kind of failure. However, when a double charge of powder was coupled with deep seating the bullet by 1/16" then the pressure generated was in the area of 67,000 psi and THAT was enough to cause a catastrophic failure.

I helped run the local police department matches during this time period. I was the official scorer. The matches were held outdoors and I scored indoors. I would hear the "pop, pop, pop" of properly loaded rounds and a couple of times a day, I would hear a very loud BLAM! and we all knew that was a double charge. No revolvers were damaged while I was on duty. The bad rounds were almost certainly loaded on a progressive press (undoubtedly a Star) by rather inexperienced reloaders. The deep seated bullets were caused by a failure to keep the seating die clean. Lube would build up, the inexperienced or inattentive loader would fail to catch the deep seated bullet and Ka-Boom!

A .38 Special has cylinder wall thickness probably twice the thickness of a .45 ACP cylinder. A double charge in a .45 ACP revolver would almost certainly cause a catastrophic failure and it wouldn't need the addition of a deep seated bullet to do it.

At any rate, in my opinion this was a simple matter of a powder overcharge. I have personally discussed these matters with ballisticians and they tell me that fast burning pistol powders will NOT detonate as has been suggested earlier in this thread.

FWIW
Dale53

 

[Kilibreaux]

You had a double charge...it's that simple.

The other explanations would be: Poor metallurgy? Not likely. Squib? Not for that kind of blow up. God's will? Nah.

I used to own a Dillon RL450...wonderful press. I also owned a Square Deal B...specific for pistol calibers and I had ALL the conversion sets! Dillon makes top notch stuff no doubt. But it wasn't Dillon that failed...it was you.

You failed because you trusted the machine to get it right every time. You stated you've loaded over 5,000 rounds...statistically speaking your gun blew up at just the right point for an overcharge to have occurred due to a mechanical malfunction. (Yeah I know the machine CAN'T malfunction, so this only means that somehow you malfunctioned.

The rise of progressive reloading machines at prices "anyone" can afford has carried with it a rise in KA-BOOMS...

This is one reason I REVERTED to the old, slow, time-consuming process of true HAND loading. Sure it takes time to powder 50 case "batches" but then I can visually SEE they are powdered! It takes longer to prime 50 case batches but I KNOW the primers are well seated. It takes longer to work each case through a manual press but at EVERY STAGE of the process my hands are on that round and my EYES are on that round.

Progressive presses CANNOT be "perfect." Commercial grade, fully automated loading machines sooner or later produce a squib that reaches the consumer. Why do you THINK factory ammo is loaded WEEEAAAKKKK? Because they're biasing their loads so that the INEVITABLE overcharge doesn't result in a blown gun....

The ONLY way to "roll your own" is to go each step in turn...physically handling each case and component, and actually SEEING what is going on. Anyone who needs to churn out a thousand rounds a "session" would be better served paying the vig for FACTORY ammo and accepting that at those consumption numbers statistical probability is STILL going to catch up with them but when it does the factory has already mitigated the outcome such that one generally does not end up with a blown gun.

I'm sorry to see a beautiful gun blown up.
It's good that you were not injured.

But it's time we stop pretending the cause could be anything OTHER than what it statistically MUST BE....and start trying to get people who choose to load their own ammo to approach the matter as conservatively as possible.

 

[STCM(SW)]

You had a double charge...it's that simple.

The other explanations would be: Poor metallurgy? Not likely. Squib? Not for that kind of blow up. God's will? Nah.

I used to own a Dillon RL450...wonderful press. I also owned a Square Deal B...specific for pistol calibers and I had ALL the conversion sets! Dillon makes top notch stuff no doubt. But it wasn't Dillon that failed...it was you.

You failed because you trusted the machine to get it right every time. You stated you've loaded over 5,000 rounds...statistically speaking your gun blew up at just the right point for an overcharge to have occurred due to a mechanical malfunction. (Yeah I know the machine CAN'T malfunction, so this only means that somehow you malfunctioned.

The rise of progressive reloading machines at prices "anyone" can afford has carried with it a rise in KA-BOOMS...

This is one reason I REVERTED to the old, slow, time-consuming process of true HAND loading. Sure it takes time to powder 50 case "batches" but then I can visually SEE they are powdered! It takes longer to prime 50 case batches but I KNOW the primers are well seated. It takes longer to work each case through a manual press but at EVERY STAGE of the process my hands are on that round and my EYES are on that round.

Progressive presses CANNOT be "perfect." Commercial grade, fully automated loading machines sooner or later produce a squib that reaches the consumer. Why do you THINK factory ammo is loaded WEEEAAAKKKK? Because they're biasing their loads so that the INEVITABLE overcharge doesn't result in a blown gun....

The ONLY way to "roll your own" is to go each step in turn...physically handling each case and component, and actually SEEING what is going on. Anyone who needs to churn out a thousand rounds a "session" would be better served paying the vig for FACTORY ammo and accepting that at those consumption numbers statistical probability is STILL going to catch up with them but when it does the factory has already mitigated the outcome such that one generally does not end up with a blown gun.

I'm sorry to see a beautiful gun blown up.
It's good that you were not injured.

But it's time we stop pretending the cause could be anything OTHER than what it statistically MUST BE....and start trying to get people who choose to load their own ammo to approach the matter as conservatively as possible.

I Could not have said it better......

 

[Knigge]

Handloading is no problem and homemade ammo is just as safe as the factory made.......you just have to keep your eyes open and NEVER take anything for granted, focus on what you do and you will be safe

 

[Boox]

Did anyone who posted to this today notice it's over 3 years old?

 

[BigBill]

Positively, positively, no, no, no interruptions when reloading. No one is allowed to bother me when I'm in the reloading zone.

With the single stage press system, I charge the primed handgun cases with the powder dispenser. I place them in the shell holder tray. Then I take a small flash lite and look into each case to make sure each powder charge is equal. Then I seat the bullets.

With progressive presses one must bring the safety level to a higher degree of awareness. If we have a jam we need to inspect or pull each charged case to be safe we don't have an over charged case. Or no powder n a case. At the bullet seating die I check for the powder charge being there and correct again.

Do not sacrifice safety for reloading speed. We can only trust ourselves when it comes to safety. Make sure your wide awake too.

Gun safety never sleeps, reloading safety is just as important as gun safety. Please do it right. God bless, bill

 

[S&WIowegan]

This zombie thread wasted lots of pages with people commiserating with the OP and trying not to hurt his feelings. That's OK but not really helpful.

It was an over-charge pure and simple! The OP started out by saying it wasn't an over-charge "because of the way a 550 runs". Are you kidding? The 550 is bad ammo city for people who can't/won't pay attention when making ammo on it. I have friends who WILL NOT use a 550 cuz it doesn't auto index. They know themselves well enough to not take the chance.

 

[cyberiad]

Blaming a reloading press for this type of failure is like blaming your car if you have an accident. As someone else noted, obviously, reloading requires careful attention. This is why I load by myself standing up behind my press, no TV, no radio. If my wife opens the door to ask a question (which I have already asked her not to do) all 'in progress' rounds come off and everything starts over. Despite what many people think 'multi-tasking' is a fallacy, the human brain simply isn't capable of it.

 

[cal50]

I seem to recall some articles - I want to say in American Rifleman - about revolvers blown up by low loads (target loads) in .38 Special caliber using Bullseye powder. Anyone know anything about that?

Regards,

Dave

I think it was using a .38 charge of powder in a .357 case with bullseye powder @ 2.7 grains. Lots of air space in the case.

 

[cal50]

That is a shame on the 625 but the up side is you can easily get a new one vs if you lost a limb or an eye.

Its a case of overpressure with the most likely cause an over charge of powder. Other possibilities would be a bore obstruction but I see no bulge or signs of that.

 

[Curt Blunt]

Is it possible the bullet was inadvertently seated deeper than normal? That could raise pressures.

 

[shawn mccarver]

This thread showed up on the general page where the most threads with recent comments show up. I lost interest as soon as I saw it was reloaded ammo. The pictures told the whole story.

Negligence on the part of the reloader. This is not a gun problem, a steel problem, an assembly problem, or an S&W problem in ANY way shape or form. It is also not a reloading press problem, not a "2.7 grains of Bullseye" problem, not a case wall thickness problem, not a primer problem, not a component problem.

This was a RELOADER problem, pure and simple, and no amount of excuses about how you have reloaded "5,000 rounds" (a minuscule amount, by the way, for most real reloaders/shooters) makes up for the fact that it was simple negligence. A mistake was made, obviously unintentional, but a mistake nonetheless. I am also glad no one got hurt.

 

[Bugs Bunny]

Wow the good lord was watching out for you that day..

I doubt a double load in a 45acp would of blown that up like that, we have had double loads of 231 in Colt 1911 style pistols with no damage. That Smith probably took 80k psi or more to grenade like that - the topstrap being destroyed is insane!!!

Squibs same thing, have had them in Colt 1911's had to replace bulged barrel is all, slide was fine.

That revolver is probably safe to 60k - 70k psi.. I agree with some sort of detonation like 4 FFFF flashpan type powder.

I load 3k - 4k plus a season but use a RCBS Chargemaster & 3 reg rockchucker presses, old school I am not familiar with those fancy presses, even so a double dose of the proper propellant in a 45acp I doubt would cause that damage if any.

Just my opinion - What is important nobody was injured..

 

[arjay]

3 1/2 year old zombie thread

 

[Mikebiker]

Well since we are on the subject let me remind everyone NEVER use blue dot in a 357 with a 125 grain bullet. A friend blew up a Python with this combination. It bulged the cylinder and tweaked the frame a little. The loads were all hot he said and needed to be tapped out. Yes he was stupid but still it was the powder. I replaced the cylinder and pushed the frame back. It has been fired with 357 loads but I will now only fire it with 38 specials. 41 magnums and blue dot are also a no-go.

 

[jtcarm]

If you had a high primer then it may have gone off which might have caused this failure. When the round being fired went off the round next to it also went off due to a high primer already being in contact with the frame.



I'm thankful that you're uninjured and here to tell us about it.

That sounds like the most plausible explanation I've heard.

Glad you're OK! Like someone said, you can buy a new gun, but not a new eye. Besides, $1000 for a new gun is probably a lot cheAper than an ER visit and hospital stay.

 

[M3Stuart]

With all these posts this is clearly the 'walking dead' of Zombie threads...it just goes ON AND ON AND ON...

 

[jtcarm]

Ok, what genius brought it back from the dead ??? I hate when I reply to a zombie threads!