Can the S&W 659 shoot 9MM +P ammunition safely?
S&W 659
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rincar
Member
The S&W manual says not to use +p. But from what I have read a small amount of +p wont damage your 659. I myself only use +p ammo in the firearm that I carry for self-defense. I practice with regular 9mm full metal jacket ammo But I always fire a few rounds of the +p ammo to insure that it functions in my carry guns. I hope this is of use to you.
georgek472
Member
659...+P ammo
Why take a chance possibly causing irrefutable damage to a fine, old, popular historical, S&W #659 auto ??? Trust me, the GAIN using +P ammo isn't worth the risk. Been there, done that.. Found out the hard way, the possibilities resulting from using +P ammo... My $0.02 worth.. I should have listened to the old timers recommendations.....
Why take a chance possibly causing irrefutable damage to a fine, old, popular historical, S&W #659 auto ??? Trust me, the GAIN using +P ammo isn't worth the risk. Been there, done that.. Found out the hard way, the possibilities resulting from using +P ammo... My $0.02 worth.. I should have listened to the old timers recommendations.....
Welcome to the S&W Forums. The Model 659 has a stainless steel slide and receiver, it was the predecessor to the Model 5906. The Model 5906 can digest lots of +P ammo, so can the Model 659. Even the aluminum alloy receiver models will hold up to +P ammo, but will suffer receiver damage sooner than those with carbon or stainless steel receivers.
I would recommend frequent replacement of the recoil spring, using either genuine S&W springs or those from Wolff. With +P, I would not run more than 3000 rounds of +P before replacement. Springs are cheap, cracked receivers are expensive to repair and sometimes cannot be repaired or replaced.
Does one really need +P 9x19mm ammo these days? My answer is that with modern bullets like the Federal HST, Remington Golden Sabre, Speer Gold Dot, and Winchester Ranger-T, the answer is no. Higher velocity with these bullets usually results in faster expansion, but sometimes less penetration. The extra recoil simply does not result in better performance from modern self-defense ammo. Older hollow point designs from the 1980's through about 2000 do benefit from the extra velocity.
I would recommend frequent replacement of the recoil spring, using either genuine S&W springs or those from Wolff. With +P, I would not run more than 3000 rounds of +P before replacement. Springs are cheap, cracked receivers are expensive to repair and sometimes cannot be repaired or replaced.
Does one really need +P 9x19mm ammo these days? My answer is that with modern bullets like the Federal HST, Remington Golden Sabre, Speer Gold Dot, and Winchester Ranger-T, the answer is no. Higher velocity with these bullets usually results in faster expansion, but sometimes less penetration. The extra recoil simply does not result in better performance from modern self-defense ammo. Older hollow point designs from the 1980's through about 2000 do benefit from the extra velocity.
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OP
Thank you, My plan for using the +P is very similar to what you are doing with +P
Again, thank you for responding.
OP
Thank you very much for taking your time to respond.
My dept issued 5904 until going to 40. Our issued duty ammo for the 5904 was the W-W 115+P+. When we went to the 5904 several 'experts' in other depts said our 5904s would never stand up to the +P+. One of our range officers decided to see how long his 5904 would last. When he retired he had documented 80,000 +P+ thru his gun. He had replaced the barrel about 50,000 as the rifling was worn and accuracy had dropped off.
When he retired he bought that same 5904 and continued shooting it.
How long would it take you to shoot 80,000 rds? Figure the cost of 80,000 rds. 20 rd boxes of quality defensive 9mm in my area is $20-$25 a box. That's close to $100,000 for 80,000 rds. First problem will be finding 80,000 rds. Then compare the $100,000 in ammo to the $500 gun.
The 5904 is an alloy frame. Your 659 is all stainless.
Would every 5904 run 80,000 rds? No way to tell. His was issued. Nothing special, nothing hand selected.
I carried a 459 for 7 years in uniform and while on SWAT before going to the 5904/6904. The 459 is alloy frame. During that time we issued Federal 115 BPLE and W-W 115 +P+. I never kept count of the rds thru mine but I know we shot between 8,000 and 12,000 every year. I still have that 459 and shoot it regularly with W-W+P+. Have never had a single round problem with it.
There's no doubt higher pressure rounds will wear faster than lower pressure. If you never drive your car faster than 40mph you can expect it to last longer than if you always drove 80mph. But how much faster will the +P rd wear? Realistically it's not likely you'll ever shoot it enough to know.
Also, the S&W manual does not say do not to use +P ammo. It says the use of +P may affect wear characteristics. Note - the word may. Driving 80mph may cause more wear than driving 40mph.
Your 659 will last longer than you.
When he retired he bought that same 5904 and continued shooting it.
How long would it take you to shoot 80,000 rds? Figure the cost of 80,000 rds. 20 rd boxes of quality defensive 9mm in my area is $20-$25 a box. That's close to $100,000 for 80,000 rds. First problem will be finding 80,000 rds. Then compare the $100,000 in ammo to the $500 gun.
The 5904 is an alloy frame. Your 659 is all stainless.
Would every 5904 run 80,000 rds? No way to tell. His was issued. Nothing special, nothing hand selected.
I carried a 459 for 7 years in uniform and while on SWAT before going to the 5904/6904. The 459 is alloy frame. During that time we issued Federal 115 BPLE and W-W 115 +P+. I never kept count of the rds thru mine but I know we shot between 8,000 and 12,000 every year. I still have that 459 and shoot it regularly with W-W+P+. Have never had a single round problem with it.
There's no doubt higher pressure rounds will wear faster than lower pressure. If you never drive your car faster than 40mph you can expect it to last longer than if you always drove 80mph. But how much faster will the +P rd wear? Realistically it's not likely you'll ever shoot it enough to know.
Also, the S&W manual does not say do not to use +P ammo. It says the use of +P may affect wear characteristics. Note - the word may. Driving 80mph may cause more wear than driving 40mph.
Your 659 will last longer than you.
jimbo728
Member
I shoot Nato 9mm in my 539&559, no problems.
It is not plus p.
Jim
It is not plus p.
Jim
TexasRaider
Member
Or, if you want near +P+ performance just get a .357 Sig. I'd also look for a .357 Sig pistol that came from pistols purpose built for the .40 S&W, like the Sig P229 or H&K USP.
Personally, and it's just my $00.02, I'd stay away from pistols that were hastily thrown together for .40 when it came out in 1990, just to get in on the rush of sales *cough cough S&W 4006 Glock 22 & Glock 23 cough cough* but were actually just 9mm pistols 'scaled up' with heavier slides and stronger recoil springs. Just my humble opinion....
Personally, and it's just my $00.02, I'd stay away from pistols that were hastily thrown together for .40 when it came out in 1990, just to get in on the rush of sales *cough cough S&W 4006 Glock 22 & Glock 23 cough cough* but were actually just 9mm pistols 'scaled up' with heavier slides and stronger recoil springs. Just my humble opinion....
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