S&W factory refinish of alloy third-gen frames?

[OlongJohnson]

Has anyone had S&W do this? Have pics of the finished product?

I've done a lot of work in the past with attempting to strip and reanodize. I was always able to tell the difference just by looking at the surface finishes, and when we got particular about control of dimensions, they tended to shift around as well. Outside dimensions got smaller (rails), inside dimensions got bigger (holes for pins and shafts). Overall, fits would generally be looser by enough that it could make a difference in subtleties of operation of a pistol.

I know the cost is higher than would generally be warranted, given the value of a really nice third gen. The same is true even with nicer revolvers, but a lot of people over on that side of the world still send them home to get refreshed, to make an old gun look nice for sentimental reasons, etc.

 

[GeoJelly]

I don't have an answer - but, I am very curious about this too. I have a 4013TST that shows just too much wear to suit me. Someone said, here on SWF, some time back that the mothership would not refinish the frame if it has the riveted-on rail - which mine has. I sure hope that isn't right!!

 

[sceva]

I am surprised that the will at all but per their website S&W will anodize 3rd gen and newer only. Frames only - currently $150

Precision Gunsmithing - Smith & Wesson

The reason you had issues with a strip and re-anodize is that Anodizing is NOT a plating or coating. It is a conversion process that converts the surface material (Aluminum) to a different Material (varying forms of Aluminum Oxide) and goes into the surface as much at it builds outward. Stripping the Anodize always results in a loss of material. leaving, as you said, outside surfaces smaller and inside surfaces ( holes etc ) larger.

 

[OlongJohnson]

The reason you had issues with a strip and re-anodize is that Anodizing is NOT a plating or coating. It is a conversion process that converts the surface material (Aluminum) to a different Material (varying forms of Aluminum Oxide) and goes into the surface as much at it builds outward. Stripping the Anodize always results in a loss of material. leaving, as you said, outside surfaces smaller and inside surfaces ( holes etc ) larger.

Fully understand this. I'm an engineer, and the experiences relayed above are part of my professional experience, not just my hobbies. I actually spoke with S&W CS about it earlier this week and was told dimensional change is not an issue. I don't really believe that, so I thought I'd put out a feeler here and check the "voice of the customer".

 

[GaryS]

I know that this might be heresy, but has anyone considered asking a gun smith to Cerakote a 3rd Gen frame? I don't mean one of those gaudy finishes, but something close to the original factory color. A subdued silver if it's a "stainless" gun, and a blue/black color if it's a blue/black gun.

Just a thought, as I don't have a gun that needs any sort of finish work.

 

[OlongJohnson]

Doing anything but a fresh bead blast on a stainless frame would be pointless, IMO. The fact that the stainless can always be touched up at low cost and without completely destroying the surface that's there and starting over is one of the biggest things in their favor.

My perception of the market is that people buy third-gens because they are relatively inexpensive, so they don't want to dump a bunch of money in them. The difference in price between a really nice one, at least of not-super-rare models, and one that's pretty rough doesn't really cover the cost of any kind of professional refinishing.

You kind of have to be committed, careful, thoughtful, and do a lot of digging to even figure out what they are these days, unless you just happen to stumble over one. It's a different crowd than Glock Talk where people pay whatever the latest one costs and then throw a bunch of money at upgrades.

 

[GaryS]

You raise valid points. All of my 3rd Gens are potential carry firearms. I have holsters for each of them and expect that they are suitable for carry whenever I feel the need.

As I posted in a thread in the forum, for a gun company that uses the word "Perfection" in their advertising, there seem to be an awful lot of aftermarket parts to improve performance. Other than grips and one gun with night sights, I've never felt the need to improve any of my 3rd Gen guns.

A little wear is just the sign of a gun that's used for it's intended purpose.

Doing anything but a fresh bead blast on a stainless frame would be pointless, IMO. The fact that the stainless can always be touched up at low cost and without completely destroying the surface that's there and starting over is one of the biggest things in their favor.

My perception of the market is that people buy third-gens because they are relatively inexpensive, so they don't want to dump a bunch of money in them. The difference in price between a really nice one, at least of not-super-rare models, and one that's pretty rough doesn't really cover the cost of any kind of professional refinishing.

You kind of have to be committed, careful, thoughtful, and do a lot of digging to even figure out what they are these days, unless you just happen to stumble over one. It's a different crowd than Glock Talk where people pay whatever the latest one costs and then throw a bunch of money at upgrades.

 

[TTSH]

I know that this might be heresy, but has anyone considered asking a gun smith to Cerakote a 3rd Gen frame? I don't mean one of those gaudy finishes, but something close to the original factory color. A subdued silver if it's a "stainless" gun, and a blue/black color if it's a blue/black gun.

Oh, I've thought about it occasionally... ... and rejected it every time. Even to "save" a hard-to-find model in a difficult marketplace like ours, I'll never be a "painted handgun" kind of guy.

My perception of the market is that people buy third-gens because they are relatively inexpensive, so they don't want to dump a bunch of money in them. The difference in price between a really nice one, at least of not-super-rare models, and one that's pretty rough doesn't really cover the cost of any kind of professional refinishing.

I would put it a little bit differently. Yes, many 3rd Gens are very good bargains in today's marketplace... but that has little to do with why you don't see a lot of them being refinished. Rather, I attribute it to the cost of a high quality refinishing job vs. the (generally smaller) added cost of simply finding a better condition gun.

And then, after that, the refinished gun will probably never be worth what the nice condition "all-original" gun is anyway. In other words, unless the subject gun is totally unique, your far better economic option is to simply buy a different, much better condition gun. That was the conclusion I reached anyway.

Your other points about prepping and re-anodizing 3rd Gen anodized aluminum frames are all true. It's an option I investigated and rejected for exactly the reasons you point out. And again, in the end you're still dealing value-wise with a re-finished gun.

 

[BAM-BAM]

I've had two worn, chipped and scratched alloy frames 3Gs Cerakoated.... a 6904 ex-police gun and a 915 former Security guard gun.... LOL both guns were far from collectible and represent guns that TTSH wouldn't even look at twice or consider buying................


both were done in what I would call a matt stainless/aluminum look...... to get reverse two-tone guns.

Now would I dump a lot of money into it? No..... each Cerakoted frame cost me $70. Don't think I've got $350 total in either gun......

They are now my "truck"/"rough use".... 3G guns.......both have held up well over one and two years......... course both are still carried in a good holster and generally under a cover garment.

IMHO it was a worthwhile experiment...................and both guns look a lot better than they did....... and I'm not losing any value given their original condition

 

[TTSH]

LOL both guns were far from collectible and represent guns that TTSH wouldn't even look at twice or consider buying................

Oh Bam! You make it sound like poor, humble old TTSH is only interested in the most valuable and collectible 3rd Gens out there when the truth is that eight out of his last dozen 3rd Gen acquisitions were inexpensive "value line" guns. You can't get more modest and unpretentious than that! My last 3rd Gen, another "value line" gun, was the least expensive one I've ever bought. Dirt poverty demands it.

They are now my "truck"/"rough use".... 3G guns.......both have held up well over one and two years.........

I don't think we do "truck guns" here in the People's Republic of Taxachusetts. I've got a ratty, rusty old Chevy work truck... but I've never once put a gun in it or even transported a gun in it. At least I can't remember ever doing so.

I'll have to ask GaryS. He would know.

But if I were ever so inclined to do a "truck gun", it wouldn't be one of my beloved 3rd Gens. Again, it sounds like a perfect application for cheap, disposable plastic!

 

[BAM-BAM]

Oh Bam! You make it sound like poor, humble old TTSH is only interested in the most valuable and collectible 3rd Gens out there when the truth is that eight out of his last dozen 3rd Gen acquisitions were inexpensive "value line" guns. You can't get more modest and unpretentious than that! My last 3rd Gen, another "value line" gun, was the least expensive one I've ever bought. Dirt poverty demands it.


I don't think we do "truck guns" here in the People's Republic of Taxachusetts. I've got a ratty, rusty old Chevy work truck... but I've never once put a gun in it or even transported a gun in it. At least I can't remember ever doing so.

I'll have to ask GaryS. He would know.

But if I were ever so inclined to do a "truck gun", it wouldn't be one of my beloved 3rd Gens. Again, it sounds like a perfect application for cheap, disposable plastic!

NO you are widely recognized as a man of distinction and fine taste .... Mr. .......... well except for wine....... ...........



To paraphrase ...

" I don't always carry a Truck gun.... but when I do.....it a Smith & Wesson"

Remember...... "Carry the best..... or be carried by Six!!!"

 

[TTSH]

NO you are widely recognized as a man of distinction and fine taste .... Mr. .......... well except for wine....... ...........

To paraphrase ...

" I don't always carry a Truck gun.... but when I do.....it a Smith & Wesson"

Remember...... "Carry the best..... or be carried by Six!!!"

I'll admit it. It's entirely possible that I *do* need a "truck gun" and just don't know it?

But I still think corrosion-free plastic might make more sense.

 

[BAM-BAM]

I'll admit it. It's entirely possible that I *do* need a "truck gun" and just don't know it?

But I still think corrosion-free plastic might make more sense.

LOL......once they; steel or plastic, rust up like that ....... the plastic fantastic only makes a better looking paperweight....... cus the insides of both are a solid block of iron-oxide .................




PS: that Taurus.... was a Amazon River "canoe gun"............

 

[GeoJelly]

I never have been accused of being the sharpest knife in the drawer – that said – am I to assume that out of all of these esteemed respondents, and observers, that not a single person has sent an alloy frame 3G back to the mothership for refinishing?? Maybe someone out there has at least seen one that someone else sent back? I'm still going to send my 4013 back later this year but words of assurance would be nice…

 

[kenny brooks]

think should refinished this or leave it

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[GaryS]

No truck guns as commonly used in other parts of the country. In most states it's fine to leave a handgun under a seat, in a console, or in the glove box. Do that in the PRM, and you're looking at a felony.

Actually, even if it were legal, I wouldn't do that. I have a friend in a southerns state who used to have a truck gun, but it mysteriously disappeared around the same time he had it in an auto shop for work.

A plumber I knew down south kept a cheap gun in his tool box. Until it disappeared one day.

If I did have a handgun for that kind of thing, like you, it wouldn't be a 3rd Gen. I'd go with something with a plastic frame and stainless upper. I don't follow S&W pre M&P squirt pistols, but one of those would fit the bill.

Overall, I'd be more inclined to have a long gun as a "truck gun" than a handgun. Easier to carry a handgun and leave the long gun behind for "Oh S---" situations.

I don't think we do "truck guns" here in the People's Republic of Taxachusetts. I've got a ratty, rusty old Chevy work truck... but I've never once put a gun in it or even transported a gun in it. At least I can't remember ever doing so.

I'll have to ask GaryS. He would know.

But if I were ever so inclined to do a "truck gun", it wouldn't be one of my beloved 3rd Gens. Again, it sounds like a perfect application for cheap, disposable plastic!

 

[kenny brooks]

Like see these Tupperware guns 50 yrs from now verus alloy...

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[TTSH]

Someone said, here on SWF, some time back that the mothership would not refinish the frame if it has the riveted-on rail - which mine has. I sure hope that isn't right!!

If they do, expect an extra charge for removal and reattachment.

I never have been accused of being the sharpest knife in the drawer – that said – am I to assume that out of all of these esteemed respondents, and observers, that not a single person has sent an alloy frame 3G back to the mothership for refinishing?

Other than a forum-posted report of same, which I have not yet seen, how the heck would anyone know? I doubt a dealer selling an aluminum-framed 3rd Gen that had been factory refinished would admit to it. I mean, what would be the point? He might not even know himself depending on how he acquired the gun?

I once saw an aluminum-framed, square trigger guard 3rd Gen at a show wherein the finish on the aluminum frame was not like anything I had ever seen come out of the factory then or since (and I own a fair number of them). Never did figure out what that finish was. It looked nice enough... but very, very different. I suspected Cerakote so it was a no-go for me.

 

[BAM-BAM]

My "truck gun" is a bit different than the traditional definition of the 30-30 in the rack in the back widow.

My general carry gun is a 3913/14/NL.......in a 7+1 configuration.....if I'm headed to the cabin for a weekend or a week at the Outer Banks or a NE Ohio Bunch gathering... I might add a hi-cap and a couple or three mags. to my "bag of stuff".

Or out riding/doing chores with the RZR or 4-wheeler..... rather than wear/open carry a gun it might ride in a holster in the glove box or rear seat/bag on the Honda.




TTSH my cerakote 3G frames have a bit of a "bead blasted" look..... vs the smooth factory finish...

 

[kenny brooks]

Pics of some these guns be nice,compare finish

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