s&w had there LAST chance with me!

[TDC]

I have purchased an M&P 9, Model 617, Model 629, Model 63, SW1911E, Model 60 Pro Series, Model 36 Classic Series... all of them new... since 2009, and every one has been functionally flawless, and cosmetically beautiful. I just can't attribute that to luck (particularly in light of my utter lack of luck in all other endeavors...)

My 8 other used Smith and Wessons are also holding up well....and some of them have quite a bit of mileage.

I only own Smith and Wesson handguns currently. I've had Sigs, Springfield Armory, Rugers and Colts...but they're gone now... traded or sold to facilitate the acquisition of a new (or new to me) Smith and Wesson.

I had to return my M&P 15-22 for a known problem, and the customer service was polite, professional; the repairs were quick and resulted in a firearm that was better than before it broke. The turnaround time couldn't have been more prompt.

Might just be me, but I'm hooked.

I ain't going anywhere...anytime soon.

The Big OX makes some strong points the vast majority of us have experienced. I have to wonder, after reading many of the responses on this thread, how much attitude has made a difference in the way S&W customer relations has handled many of these different, and in a few cases, inflamitory complaints.

Sure, we all want a trouble free, precision built, lifetime durable, totally hassle free, super accurate, aesthetic masterpiece, and above all less costly guns.

It just can't happen and won't happen with any mechanical object today.

We will never again see the hand finishing that used to be from S&W. It was the only method then but one has to wonder if the various technologies had been available then that are available today if hand fitting would have been deemed necessary. I doubt it....

People need to realize economic and political pressures against manufacturers like S&W demand they reduce all costs-- materials, labor, R&D, advertising, marketing, legal, retirement, taxes -- all critical aspects of their business or they no longer in business. We've seen federal environmental laws imposed that have negatively impacted issues like the quality of bluing on guns. Unlike the banks and auto industries, ain't nobody going to bail the firearms manufacturers out in a financial crisis!

When I see complaint threads like this one I have to wonder how aware these posters are that the firearms industry may be on the very edge of extinction. Their negative attitudes and corresponding threats of being non-consumers can only serve to disrupt the new gun buying market. They appear to be too uninformed to realize the firearms industry will never again be what they want it to be. It can't!!

The vast majority of my large collection is made up of S&W's considered by these same people as being from "the good old days." They are, in many cases, fine examples.... but don't think for a moment they didn't have issues of their own in their day, and they were without the support and outstanding coverage of the current S&W lifetime warranty.

So guys, if you want a durable modern gun combined with the hand fitting of the 60's and 70's have your new purchase S&W firearm custom fitted by a qualified gunsmith. It's your choice. But expect to pay a thousand or two more in inflated value dollars for the gun quality you're looking for. Quit complaining about an unchangeable issue others of us are finding acceptable, and in some ways a better product in this current political and economic environment.

 

[Edmo]

I think it's time for all the anti-S&W people who think they "know it all" to form their own handgun company. It would be comic entertainment to see the product and service they would provide.

You guys need to sell all your offensive early and late S&W handguns to help chill you out a little.... I'm, uh, buyin' these "foul turkey's" any time, any day, willing to pay you the meager sums you think they're worth -- so are others..........

Yes I do own other S&W handguns which work and some of them are in this picture. The coveted S&W handgun which is on it second trip back for repairs is the black one on the lower left... That logo on the side isn't from Ruger, it isn't from Glock, it is from S&W.

Not all of S&W products work as advertised so don't get upset when someone posts about a S&W gun which doesn't work. I am not a "troll" because I bought a faulty handgun and posted about it.

I have been lucky with most of my firearm purchases and it is a rare occasion for me to have one malfunction. S&W built me one which has malfunctioned TWICE in two months. That for me is outside the norm for a product which is designed to function when called on to defend my life.

I guess I'll have to limit my S&W posts to only those handguns which work.

Edmo

 

[zzclancy]

All my S&W's are older ones except for my Thunder Ranch Model 21 and my Model 21 that is not marked with Thunder Ranch. I don't like the IL either, but I carry my unmarked model 21 most of the time (always armed). When I go to the back country I carry one of my Lew Horton 44 mags. Never had a problem with either of these two newer model 21s. Both shoot to point of aim. They have become my two favorite revolvers. When I read all the negative comments I'm not sure what to think having never had a problem.

 

[blujax01]

I just read a different thread where the OP has a stove-piping problem with a new M&P 9. Three of the first six responses included "send it back" while not one person mentioned to this new shooter that the problem may be "limp-wristing".

I would find quite ironic if these clocked barrels were due to astigmatisms!

 

[aphelion]

When I read all the negative comments I'm not sure what to think having never had a problem.

It is the way of Internet forums. Some people encounter a problem and go all histrionic about it. Others deal with the problem in a calm and systematic way and move on. The histrionic ones are more noticeable because they are so noisy, but the their problems are seldom representative of what most people will encounter.

 

[Nightowl]

I have been buying Smiths since I bought my Model 29-2 back in 1968. There have been good ones and bad ones in any decade I have bought guns. Back in the '70's almost all guns I checked had timing issues, brand new from the factory. Actions were gritty and any Smith bought new needed to be smoothed in order to be decent enough to shoot. Guns in the '90's almost always have hand/ratched interface tightness in the last part of the pull. Now we have barrel center issues and firing pin issues. I love Smiths, but I always check them to make sure they time properly and have no obvious issues before I buy. Well, except for on line purchases. I just have to take my chances with them. From my limited experience and information gleaned here, I think guns up until around 1970, and guns of the 1990's are probably the best. Still many need some cleaning, or smoothing to function the way I want them to. What I cannot understand is, with all the modern machinery and tools, that Smith cannot line up a barrel properly dead center, ever time, make a gun that fires ever time like the old timers would, and make the cylinder holes line up perfectly with the barrel.

 

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

There is a reason the Colt stopped selling their double action revolvers. They were expensive to make, went out of time easily, and the later ones had really poor trigger actions. I have shot several. Uggh!
They look nice, though.

B-A-L-O-N-E-Y​

PA Reb,

I am not an expert, but my limited observation supports your characterization of the quote. I am not sure what Andy meant by "the later ones," but I used to own both a DS and an Agent made in the eighties when they were parkerizing them (or at least it looked that way), and they had the BEST trigger pulls I've seen on a Colt revolver.

I have not had a Colt go out of time on me, which I cannot say for my older Model 37, and I have one of the first 642's which went back to the factory right after I bought it, because it didn't carry up on all chambers when cocked slowly. I really don't know whether a Colt needs timing more often than a Smith, but it does lock up tighter, which may be why they dominated the bullseye circuit back when revolvers were competitive.

Both brands are pretty good, and both companies have had periods of problems. My limited observation, including rejecting three or four new Model 63 revolvers before finding an acceptable one, was that Colt never sank quite as low as S&W during the problem periods.

Others may differ.

520

 

[MichiganScott]

I would find quite ironic if these clocked barrels were due to astigmatisms!

Gotta laugh about that one, blujax. Every iron sighted pistol or rifle I own has the rear sight left of center because of my astigmatism, some as much as 6 MOA.

 

[weakhand luke]

Maybe it's time to stop blaming QC for these issues. Gone are the days of "burning the toast and scraping it" to make it right. If there are truly problems with the apparent quality of this product, then blame must go to the design of the product or the manufacturing process. Not possible for any company to inspect quality into their product and expect to stay in business. Smith & Wesson, I'm sure, is looking at these field issues constantly and tweaking the design and or process to achieve acceptable levels of customer satisfaction.

 

[turbo38gn]

I too am tired of S&W and their lock, poor CS and ill fitted guns. If any consolation to anyone, I dumped all of my S&W stock yesterday (that has been in the negative for so long) and am no longer an "owner". I may pick up an old model in the future but the desire is waning.

You and Da are pretty wise guys... I just read in this mornings business section how S&W stocks jumped a $1.29 a share and the profits are up like 23.8%.... must be all those M&P's they're selling!! We all knows it ain't 4566's....

 

[vector16]

You and Da are pretty wise guys... I just read in this mornings business section how S&W stocks jumped a $1.29 a share and the profits are up like 23.8%.... must be all those M&P's they're selling!! We all knows it ain't 4566's....

Its the new rifles coming out and the deal with Apex there chief. When the M&Ps came out there stock took a major hit. Do you own any stock or did you look this all up by your pretty little self, cupcake.

 

[turbo38gn]

Its the new rifles coming out and the deal with Apex there chief. When the M&Ps came out there stock took a major hit. Do you own any stock or did you look this all up by your pretty little self, cupcake.

More funny stuff, hey everyone he's a comedian too!! You really are clueless ...... aw never mind, I almost thought I was reliving my childhood. You know..... when we call the other kids names and try to intimidate them... but I'll refrain from retalliating.

But then again, those are some flattering remarks.... if I was your boyfriend... if you're flirting with me, I'm not that kinda guy, you'll have to look elsewhere..

 

[ladder13]

well....in your past writings you no longer buy ruger because they are not up to your standards...now smith&wesson....i guess that leaves rossi,taurus,charter arms and the like

Hmmmmm, good detective work Kenny

I would see the OP on the Glock, Keltec or Taurus forums, but I don't own any.

 

[Ironhand]

Sittin' here enjoying ALL of My S&W revolvers and autos, and not a single harumf uttered.

"Give the governor a 'harrumph'..."

 

[weakhand luke]

I have been buying Smiths since I bought my Model 29-2 back in 1968. There have been good ones and bad ones in any decade I have bought guns. Back in the '70's almost all guns I checked had timing issues, brand new from the factory. Actions were gritty and any Smith bought new needed to be smoothed in order to be decent enough to shoot. Guns in the '90's almost always have hand/ratched interface tightness in the last part of the pull. Now we have barrel center issues and firing pin issues. I love Smiths, but I always check them to make sure they time properly and have no obvious issues before I buy. Well, except for on line purchases. I just have to take my chances with them. From my limited experience and information gleaned here, I think guns up until around 1970, and guns of the 1990's are probably the best. Still many need some cleaning, or smoothing to function the way I want them to. What I cannot understand is, with all the modern machinery and tools, that Smith cannot line up a barrel properly dead center, ever time, make a gun that fires ever time like the old timers would, and make the cylinder holes line up perfectly with the barrel.

Good, Fast, Cheap You can only pick two.

 

[allglock]

Wish the mods would lock this thread... seems like alot of people need some cheese with their whine!

 

[Edmo]

Wish the mods would lock this thread... seems like alot of people need some cheese with their whine!

Nope they can keep the food products, I just want S&W to correctly fix my revolver. I guess I'm the odd-ball, but I want a self-defense handgun to go BANG everytime I pull the trigger! Seems like a minor detail to some, but the main detail for me.

I don't think that is too much to ask from S&W or is it?

Edmo

 

[allglock]

Nope they can keep the food products, I just want S&W to correctly fix my revolver. I guess I'm the odd-ball, but I want a self-defense handgun to go BANG everytime I pull the trigger! Seems like a minor detail to some, but the main detail for me.

I don't think that is too much to ask from S&W or is it?

Edmo

I am on your side Edmo! I was just poking a little fun, at the people who are getting all worked up, in this thread!
I think this thread has been rehashed enough at this point in time.

 

[Edmo]

I am on your side Edmo! I was just poking a little fun, at the people who are getting all worked up, in this thread!
I think this thread has been rehashed enough at this point in time.

No problems, and I agree... This one has run it's course.

I like your screen name and I'm an extreme fan of tupperware. The local cop supply shop is having their annual "Glock Days" today and tomorrow, so I'm headed down to get yet another one of those darned things.

I bet it will work straight out of the box!

Edmo

 

[turbo38gn]

No problems, and I agree... This one has run it's course.

I like your screen name and I'm an extreme fan of tupperware. The local cop supply shop is having their annual "Glock Days" today and tomorrow, so I'm headed down to get yet another one of those darned things.

I bet it will work straight out of the box!

Edmo

hmmmmm, what a surprise..