S&W in American Rifleman

[dangt]

On page 77 of the Jan., 2015 issue of Rifleman is a pic of what is supposed to be a battle field found Victory 38. Does not look like a S&W to me especially in the area of the butt of the grip frame. Stock pin is located in an odd place, lanyard ring looks round instead of elongated, and general shape of the interior cut out of the grip frame. At first I thought the mainspring was just rusted away, but the area at the bottom of the grip frame just looks wrong for the typical S&W way of anchoring the spring.

How about the shape of the trigger and trigger guard? Does not look like S&W..............only similar.

Anybody spot anything else? What is it........Spanish? Maybe the museum has it labeled "S&W."

 

[gmborkovic]

By Jove, Watson, I think you are on to something. The thing that hit me was the thumb piece and no cut in frame for mainspring. Mike 2796

 

[DWalt]

I haven't seen it yet, but will look at the picture when I receive that issue.

 

[DWalt]

I just got the latest AR a few minutes ago. The picture on p. 77 shows some odd non-S&W features as mentioned. I'd guess it is a Spanish copy. I can understand that some of them showed up on various battlefields in both major European wars. I expect a correction in the next issue, as it's likely that NRA will receive many similar comments.

 

[Texas Star]

The French ordered many S&W M&P copies chambered for their 8mm Lebel ctg. Might be one of those. I haven't seen that issue of the magazine. However, if they said this was a Victory Model, it was sloppy ID and editing. Those M&P copies were Spanish, probably from several firms.

Does anyone recall the old 1950's TV show about Capt. Gallant of the French Foreign Legion? (Portrayed by Buster Crabbe.) I was a kid then, but believe that he used either one of those 8mm copies or a real M&P/Victory Model. The French got a lot of our .30 carbines after WWII and probably, some Victory Models. They also got most of the M-3 Trench Knives, which is why they're fairly unusual here.

If anyone can post pics of that gun in the article, we can probably ID it.

 

[DWalt]

It's in what one would call Relic condition. .30 Carbines were favorites of the French Foreign Legion, especially in French Indochina (now Vietnam). Very handy to hump around a lightweight carbine in the jungles and marshes, and adequately effective. But I never understood why the French manufactured and used corrosive .30 Carbine ammo. That probably didn't help carbine reliability much.

 

[cmj8591]

Hmmmm......with some Break Free and a little elbow grease!

 

[Alk8944]

It's in what one would call Relic condition. .30 Carbines were favorites of the French Foreign Legion, especially in French Indochina (now Vietnam). Very handy to hump around a lightweight carbine in the jungles and marshes, and adequately effective. But I never understood why the French manufactured and used corrosive .30 Carbine ammo. That probably didn't help carbine reliability much.

This is either a Spanish or Belgian copy of a S&W. Look about halfway down the back strap you will see the nearly rusted away pivot point for the Colt/Pieper type rebound lever which is typical of the European copies. The stock pin is usually in the same location as real S&W revolvers though.

 

[John R]

I think it's a Ruby, a pretty good copy of a S&W.

 

[tlmetesh]

I'll shoot Mark Keefe an email and link to this thread. Thanks for the input and catch, all!

 

[paul s]

Wow! Some sharp eyeballs. I saw it and thought it odd that the left recoil shield was missing?

 

[Jack Flash]

... I can understand that some of them showed up on various battlefields in both major European wars. ...

Was there any reason it was thought to be from WWII? They are still digging up WWI artifacts over there. IIRC, in the 1914-1918 conflict, France was buying any handgun they could get their hands on, due to the often very close combat conditions in the trenches. Spain supplied handguns for this insatiable demand.

... But I never understood why the French manufactured and used corrosive .30 Carbine ammo. That probably didn't help carbine reliability much. ...

Especially in a hot humid environment.

 

[DWalt]

There are many .32-20 Spanish revolvers seen, and in fact most that I have personally seen were .32-20s. The story (correctness unknown) is that these were essentially the same revolvers originally chambered in French 8mm Lebel, as made for the French in WWI, simply rechambered to .32-20. It makes some sense, as the Spanish factories were probably tooled up to make the 8mm caliber revolvers and had lots of parts, and maybe complete guns, laying around after the war which could be repurposed for civilian sale in the USA. Sort of like rechambering the .38/200 BSR Victories to .38 Special after WWII.

 

[rjb1]

This isn't the NRA's or "The American Rifleman's" fault, but while we're on the subject of that article on the Battle of the Bulge, have a look at the helmet of the museum manikin at the beginning of the article. Does anyone else think that the helmet is on backwards?

 

[Hoppe's no.10]

A bit clearer shot for your consideration:

.

Hoppe's no. 10

 

[ordnanceguy]

The lanyard ring is not genuine S&W either.

 

[lebomm]

Helmet in diorama

This isn't the NRA's or "The American Rifleman's" fault, but while we're on the subject of that article on the Battle of the Bulge, have a look at the helmet of the museum manikin at the beginning of the article. Does anyone else think that the helmet is on backwards?

Yup, looks backwards to me !

Larry