S&W M&P 9 responsible for rise in shootings?

[yrf009]

"Because of its easier pull, the Smith & Wesson is easier to shoot accurately and its hand grip comes in three sizes, making it easier to use for people with small hands.

With the advent of the new weapon, deputies are obtaining better scores at the firing range and more recruits are passing the firearms test."

is this a paid advertisement by Smith & Wesson

 

[kthom]

Negative consequences from the use or handling of any inanimate object is never the fault of the object. Yes, some objects can be easier to handle or use incorrectly or unsafely than others, but it is the user who is responsible for how things are used. Good training makes a difference for sure, even with something as simple as a hammer, but the ND's mentioned here or anywhere else are not the fault of the gun. They are the fault of the one or ones who touch them, ignorantly or carelessly, and without following the rules that apply to avoid such things and/or to prevent negative consequences if an ND actually occurs. If the OP's title statement is actually true, then I own several spoons that are totally responsible for the fact that any scale I step up on registers weight that is not commensurate with my height!!!!! For the record, no spoon has ever placed anything in my mouth unless either I or someone else picked it up and put it in my mouth with food in it!!!

 

[cgt4570]

Some years ago I thought a trigger shoe was a good idea to help with a heavy double action only trigger. I have a scar on the side of my leg reminding me not to do that again! Loudest shot I've ever heard. I couldn't believe I let it happen and everyone that knew me was shocked, too because they all knew my attention to gun safety.

 

[rsrocket1]

Don't let these guys run through the house with a pair of scissors, they'll put someone's eye out!

 

[S&W Fan]

Same thing happened when Blocks first starting getting the l.e. bids. Too hard to blame the mistake on the part of the gun handler.

 

[petepeterson]

I thought that was an unusually informative and unbiased article.

 

[Groo01]

Range time for cops is always gonna be minimal. Cost of ammo. Taking guys off the street. I don't think I shot more than 400 rounds a year at qualification.

Cops take their guns out way more than civilians. And they do it under stress which civilians don't do. For this reason I have always said that striker fired guns are poor choices for police departments.

Groo here
This is why I support a return to revolvers for most cops.
As most cops are not gun people and think the gun is just
a heavy part of their uniform, the simplest action type is best.
A 6-7-8 shot revolver in 9mm [ with moon clips]
would fill the bill well.
The "spray and pray" mind set would be broken,
the long rolling trigger pull would be safer and require the
shooter to pay attention.
The auto is for experienced shooters who will train and pay attention.
The revolver is for everyone else.
I carried both but shot with many I would not want with an auto,
but were passable and safe with a revolver.
The second thing is to look at the holster
that is used .
The Level 2 and level3 holsters are questionable, as
some require the trigger finger to be used as a Blackhawk [BAD]
or are so hard to get out that the shooter will try to draw early
or defeat some or all the retention systems.
A simple strap or thumb break is still the most reliable.
{ Rant Over Now]

 

[Rastoff]

Did you read the article? It clearly states that with the Beretta 92 they were trained to ride the trigger.

Yes, I did read it, did you? Nowhere in the article does it day they were trained to "ride the trigger. " What it does say is that they were trained to have their finger on the trigger when they were on the target. That's a far cry from riding the trigger which means keeping your finger on the trigger all the time. Even work an M&P, the trigger finger should be on the trigger when on target.

 

[Momokahn]

I own a 92 FS and an M&P and in my 40 plus years of shooting I have never ridden the trigger on any gun I have owned. No I'm not a cop but my God why would anyone train to ride a trigger. Even with my 92 FS and its 500 pound trigger, unless I intend to destroy my target, I do not touch the trigger. Case closed.

 

[Magload]

Agree with Rastoff. Nothing like messing up a good sight picture with moving your finger to the trigger. If you committed to firing I would think getting your finger on the trigger as soon as the muzzle is pointed at the target and you are going to shoot.

As far as LOE training goes I would think a professional would learn how best to use their tools that they carry everyday to protect you and me and our love one. That and to be sure they could protect them selves with those tools. Ok I will get off my soapbox. Don

 

[Groo01]

I own a 92 FS and an M&P and in my 40 plus years of shooting I have never ridden the trigger on any gun I have owned. No I'm not a cop but my God why would anyone train to ride a trigger. Even with my 92 FS and its 500 pound trigger, unless I intend to destroy my target, I do not touch the trigger. Case closed.

Groo here
Some eastern big cities [ NYC for one] did train to have your
finger on the trigger!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The reason given was the hardcore bad men [aka gangs]
believed that an officer was not "serious" unless the finger was on the trigger.
I had 30some years at this, just be glad you have not read /been taught
or been told some of the things we got!!!!!!

 

[Rastoff]

I think some terms are being misconstrued. Let me at least clear up what I think these terms mean.

Riding the Trigger
To me this means having your finger on the trigger all the time. As soon as it leaves the holster, finger is on the trigger. This is a ridiculously unsafe practice and no self-respecting instructor (who is sane) would teach this.

On Target - On Trigger
This means the trigger finger is only on the trigger when actually pointed at the target. At every other time, the trigger finger is outside of the trigger guard on the reference point. This is what I teach. If you're pointed at the target, your finger had better be on the trigger. Otherwise, how will you shoot the gun? If you're not ready to shoot, why is your gun pointed at the target?

If you're not pointed at the target, why is your finger on the trigger? You're not ready to shoot so, it should be on the reference point.

Here it is in a compact thought:
For defensive shooting, when pointed at the target, finger is on the trigger.
For every kind of shooting, if not pointed at the target, finger is outside the trigger guard and on the reference point.

 

[HCH]

What part of "finger off the trigger until you intend to fire" are they not training?

Don't know what they are currently trading, but it always was 'On target, on trigger" for double action pistols.

 

[kbm6893]

The NYPD does NOT teach finger on trigger, sights on target. Finger should not touch trigger until you are going to fire. Screwing up sight picture? How does moving your finger off the trigger guard to trigger do that? And by how much? Enough to matter? I doubt it.

These guys screwed up, no doubt. They're human and were surely amped up a bit. Police work tends to do that to people. Chasing somebody who may have a gun or responding to a shots fired or burglary call are far different than Joe Citizen strapping on an M&P and going about his day. The gun in that case should never even be touched until it is being unholstered and out away.

I like striker fired guns too. I gotta admit I shoot my SR9 better than my 92 and I've been shooting them for over 20 years. But they are less forgiving of error than hammer fired weapons.

 

[petepeterson]

I like striker fired guns too. I gotta admit I shoot my SR9 better than my 92 and I've been shooting them for over 20 years. But they are less forgiving of error than hammer fired weapons.

I shoot my ladyfriend's Glock 19 a tad better than my 3913/14s, but it's that "margin of error" that keeps me from switching to one. To me, the slight loss of accuracy is far outweighed by what I perceive to be a safer carry pistol.

 

[Bud33]

sounds like they need a safety on those guns....

If I'm not mistaken, you can not buy a gun in Calif. without a safety!

 

[Bud33]

New gun blamed for rise in LA County deputy shootings

Sheriff's officials in LA County say S&W M&P 9 pistols may be responsible for rise in accidental shootings.
This is going to be interesting.

Looks to me like an article written by Glock

 

[Fastbolt]

If I'm not mistaken, you can not buy a gun in Calif. without a safety!

In order to get any new pistol designs onto the Roster ...

Manual safety? No.

Magazine safety? Yes. (In addition to a couple other features.)

 

[Rastoff]

If I'm not mistaken, you can not buy a gun in Calif. without a safety!

You are mistaken. This is more internet FUD. Allow me to clear it up for you...

In CA, to buy a handgun legally, it must be on the Roster of Handguns Certified for Sale. There are many handguns on the list that do not have a thumb safety or magazine safety. As long as they were on the list prior to the mag safety requirement, they may remain on the list as long as the certificate is renewed before it expires.

There was never a law requiring a thumb safety and still isn't.

 

[vipermd]

What it does say is that they were trained to have their finger on the trigger when they were on the target.

I have read the article numerous times, out of the 30 lines, which one does it say ... finger on trigger ... target?
I agree it is a training issue or poor execution of what was taught, I can not find that statement? Line?? Be Safe,