Goblin
Member
Can someone explain SSE vs. SAE?
-
Forum Update: We've upgraded the software to improve security, performance, and the overall experience.
👉 Read why we made the change | Support the Forum
S&W Model 17 Not ALLOWED IN CA.?
- Thread starter Surfer44
- Start date
Yeah, the "bullet button" is pretty rediculous.
Last edited:
Just the reason most sellers state "NO sales to CA".
Gryff
Member
Both are/were techniques to comply with the mis-named Safe Handgun Roster.
SSE (Single-Shot Exemption) was for semi-autos. The law allowed a gun to be roster exempt if it had a 6" barrel and was a single shot. So, knowledgeable FFLs here in the People's Republik of Kalifornia would pull out the old barrel and drop in one that was at least 6" long, and would put some type of magwell insert that wouldn't hold any bullets (i.e. a magazine with the follower glued to the top of the mag tube). The gun would be DROSed (registered) in that configuration, and then at the end of our waiting period, the FFL would give the original parts to the owner who would then convert the gun back to its original configuration (and give the conversion parts back to the FFL). Goofy, but it complied with the letter of the law until a law starting 1/1/15 removed the exemption.
SAE (Single-Action Exemption) allows some revolvers to get around the roster. The gun has to be single action only, have at least a 3" barrel, must be 5 or more shots, and have an overall length of at least 7.5" at the time of registration (it doesn't have to come from the factory that way). So, for S&Ws, you pop off the sideplate, remove the hammer, drive out the pin that holds the DA sear, then remove the sear and close up the gun. When you pick it up after the 10-day wait, you take it apart and put the sear back in. If you know what you are doing, it's a 10-minute process with S&Ws. This exemption is still in place.
In the last six weeks, I have SAEed a 3" Model 66-3 and a 4" Model 617-6.
Link on the process:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=453716
Last edited:
jtcarm
Member
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2011
- Messages
- 4,422
- Reaction score
- 4,314
I had a buyer once that couldn't pay, but due to unexpected financial problem.
We worked it out by having him reimburse me the GB fees and I just re listed. He avoided an NPB, and I avoided the headache & delay of the process.
What was extremely irritating to me is GB doesn't allow you to offer to the next highest bidder, there's no way to contact them. In this auction, next highest had bid the exact same amount, but the other guy had gotten there first. GB could've made a win/win/win resolution.
In your case, I'd charge some stupid tax in addition to your fees, which are significant on a $1,500 sale. This was not due to an unforeseen financial hardship, but plain stupidity on his part. Plus if he used Buy Now and caused your auction to end early, it may have cost you money.
Also check GBs terms of service, which I'm sure say something about responsibility of knowing state laws and remind the buyer.
We worked it out by having him reimburse me the GB fees and I just re listed. He avoided an NPB, and I avoided the headache & delay of the process.
What was extremely irritating to me is GB doesn't allow you to offer to the next highest bidder, there's no way to contact them. In this auction, next highest had bid the exact same amount, but the other guy had gotten there first. GB could've made a win/win/win resolution.
In your case, I'd charge some stupid tax in addition to your fees, which are significant on a $1,500 sale. This was not due to an unforeseen financial hardship, but plain stupidity on his part. Plus if he used Buy Now and caused your auction to end early, it may have cost you money.
Also check GBs terms of service, which I'm sure say something about responsibility of knowing state laws and remind the buyer.
Gryff
Member
I have loaned a K frame hammer to someone in CA so his revolver would be legal. He then put the original one back and sent me my hammer back.
I now keep a spare K frame hammer with the DA sear already removed. If I need to SAE a gun, I just open the side plate and swap hammers.
I have to disagree with this suggestion. Too many GB sellers are using the No Sales to California is a simple way to avoid problems, but they are denying us a lot of guns that we can have. And they are playing into the real point of the Safe Handgun Roster, which is a backdoor ban and tax on guns (did you realize that if the manufacturer doesn't pay a periodic renewal fee, their previously determined "safe" model magically becomes "unsafe"?)
For example, the S&W Model 41 pistol isn't on the Roster. But it is on the Olympic Pistol Exemption list. If a seller checked the roster, they'd think they couldn't sell it to me, but they would be wrong.
https://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/agweb/pdfs/firearms/forms/op.pdf
I recommend sellers state that it is up to the buyer to know their state laws, and if a gun gets rejected because of the buyer's ignorance, they have to pay a 25% restocking fee. Fair to the buyer. Fair to the seller.
Please keep an open mind if a Californian reaches out to you and explains why your gun could be brought in to the state. Both the M66 and M617 I just purchased said "no California sales" in the auctions, and both sellers were willing to listen when I provided a rational explanation of how I was going to comply with the laws but still receive these off-roster guns.
We're under attack in this state. I know you Free Staters don't want to get screwed in your auctions/sales, but remember that we are your breathren and we need your help when you can give it.
jtcarm
Member
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2011
- Messages
- 4,422
- Reaction score
- 4,314
Please educate me as to the CA law: is it that the banned guns can't be transferred to the buyer, or they're not allowed in the state, period, i.e I can't even ship it to the xfer dealer?
If it's the former, I'll continue the disclaimer "Buyers responsibility..." I always state that MY responsibility ends when it reaches the xfer dealer. If it can't be transferred to the buyer, it's their problem. The dealer can re-sell for them. This could happen also if NICS returns a decline.
If it's the latter, then yes, I will start excluding CA if I can't even ship the gun. Sorry, but I'm not going to do the buyers homework for them
In any event, I'm an occasional seller and am not going to fool with refunds/restocking fees and having the gun shipped/transferred back to me because someone was too lazy to find out if they're legal to receive it before bidding.
Gryff
Member
We have basically two types of firearm transfers in the state. Dealer transfers and Private Party Transfers (we refer to them as PPTs). Both require a California FFL to process.
A Dealer Transfer means that the gun comes from dealer stock, although the state lumps consignment and shipped firearms into this category (even if it is being shipped within the state).
A PPT means that they buyer and seller, both of whom need to be California citizens, are standing in the FFL's store and complete the paperwork together with the FFL. (The FFL then holds the gun for the required 10 days and then releases it to the buyer)
The California Safe Handgun Roster has no bearing on whether a handgun is legal in the state. It only applies to Dealer Transfers. For a Dealer Transfer to occur, the gun must be on (or excluded from) the Safe Handgun Roster.
For a Private Party Transfer, the Roster has no bearing. It also has no bearing on someone visiting or moving into the state with a gun that is not on the Roster. Intrafamilial transfers are also not subject to the roster (even if it involves shipping the gun).
So, to answer your question in terms of the Roster, you have no liability when shipping an off-roster/non-exempt handgun into California. The Roster is not a ban of any sort. It is entirely up to the California FFL who processes the registration (DROS) to comply with the Roster or determine that it is not in effect.
Please note that issues like standard capacity ("high cap") mags and California-defined "assault weapon" features are different concerns than the roster. You do need to be aware that there are some things that can't be shipped in (any +10 mags...even disassembled, handguns with threaded barrels or a mag that inserts somewhere other than the pistol grip, etc.), but that is a separate discussion.
If any of this needs clarification, please ask.
Last edited:
GREAT POST!!
I've said the same thing on this forum about the practice of systematically freezing out California.
I have a C&R FFL and I posses a California COE (Certificate of Eligibility), as such, I can legally buy ANY C&R long gun directly from out of state Dealers/Sellers... but people don't care, don't what to hear an explanation, and just cop to the wholesale "no California sales", denying us one of the few remaining gun rights that have yet to be yanked away.
And for people that aren't an FFL/COE holders... they just need to go through a CA FFL Dealer.
By denying sales to California under any circumstances, the people that do that are serving as the puppets of our anti-gun politicians, doing their dirty work for them.
Last edited:
The link at the start of the string did not work for me, so here is the official CA DOJ "Roster of Handguns Certified for Sale":
Roster of Handguns Certified for Sale - Firearms Division - California Dept. of Justice - Office of the Attorney General
Nice post.
Two comments. With respect to Dealer transfers from out of state for a sale, if the gun is not on the DOJ list, many receiving FFL's will not accept it, since they know it will not DROS.
In the case of a Private Party Transfer, it is very true that the "list" does not apply, but in practice both parties have to be CA residents for it to be legal, so it is generally not a means to import a off-list firearm to CA, unfortunately. (You can't drive a firearm over the state line for Private Party Transfer / sale.)
Roster of Handguns Certified for Sale - Firearms Division - California Dept. of Justice - Office of the Attorney General
Nice post.
Two comments. With respect to Dealer transfers from out of state for a sale, if the gun is not on the DOJ list, many receiving FFL's will not accept it, since they know it will not DROS.
In the case of a Private Party Transfer, it is very true that the "list" does not apply, but in practice both parties have to be CA residents for it to be legal, so it is generally not a means to import a off-list firearm to CA, unfortunately. (You can't drive a firearm over the state line for Private Party Transfer / sale.)
Last edited:
I'm also a NY resident and have bought a few guns (handguns) and its no problem or concern to a out of state transfer in.
You have it sent to your legal FFL shop, its logged in the shop records and after you get the signed authorization from the county your good to go. Depending on your county that could be a day to a couple weeks but its no concern of the guns sender.
So what about someone moving to California? How does the list figure in? I've tried to figure out what can or can't be brought in by reading the DOJ website to no avail. I know I can't bring in my 15 round mags for the 910 or 5903. Heck, I don't think I could bring in my father's Glenfield 60 because the tube holds more than ten rounds, and I'd have to take the pistol grips off a couple of shotguns, too.
Murdock
Member
Gryff
Member
That is foolish on the part of the FFL unless they know the status of the buyer. Law enforcement officers are exempt from the roster, so there is no reason an FFL couldn't DROS an off-roster gun for them. And, as I said, interstate intra-familial transfers are roster exempt, although a number of California FFLs are not familiar with the specific process for DROSsing the gun in this instance.
Yes, my bad. A Private Party Transfer may only occur between California residents.
The roster has no bearing on what you can or cannot bring into the state. And once you are in California as a resident, the roster has no bearing on what you can sell to another Californian through Private Party Transfer.
Standard cap mags (>10 rounds)...you have zero provision for bringing these in unless you are law enforcement, or you owned them when you lived in California previously and you are moving back now. If you've never lived here before, that doesn't apply.
Assault Weapon Laws apply. Here is an excellent flowchart to see if your gun is legal/illegal:
http://www.calguns.net/caawid/flowchart.pdf
I think you are right about your Glenfield since it holds more than 10 rounds, but I am checking with people who are smarter than I am.
Here is the shotgun rules flowchart:
http://www.calguns.net/caawid/sgflowchart.pdf
Last edited:
Good. I'll never have to do business with you.
Where is "Main"?If you meant Maine, you're a full bubble off plumb.
It's clear on the other side of the country from Kalifonia.
Similar threads
