S&W No 4 Break Top

[Doc Argyle]

I just came into possession of a S&W Breaktop revolver in .38 S&W. It is nickel with a 3 and 5/8 bbl. It appears to be unfired AND in the original cardboard flip open box! Are these worth anything in today's market? I understand the .38 S&W round is quite anemic compared to the .38 special.

Thanks.

 

[Wiregrassguy]

Some may be depending on model. The box is probably worth as much as the gun. How about some pictures so the experts can identify the model and give you an appraisal? The serial number from the butt of the gun will also help determine the time frame when it was made.

 

[BMur]

38 S&W vs. 38 Special

In addition to Guy's post. The 38 S&W compared to the 38 Special has a history of over 140 years of production behind it. A one liner doesn't quite cut it.

Both were actually originally Black Powder rounds. The 38 S&W introduced in 1876 having a standard load of 15 grains FFFG black powder behind a 147 grain round nose bullet.

The 38 Special introduced in 1899 had a standard load of 19-21 grains of FFFG Black powder load behind a 158 grain round nose bullet.

The performance comparison in penetration?

The 38 S&W penetrated 4 1/2" of pine boards

The 38 Special penetrated 5" of pine boards.

So, I honestly don't see where anemic comes into play.

The biggest advantage of the 38 Special over the 38 S&W is case volume which translates to versatility.

Even much later into the Smokeless ERA? The M&P 38 S&W (NOT special) was manufactured in very large numbers during WWII... Over 560,000 were manufactured by Smith & Wesson for the British. Using their "man-stopper" 38/200 round.

If I personally owned one of those Modern swing out cylinder WWII Military revolvers? I would not hesitate to hand load rounds that exceeded 1200 fps "safely". So, Black Power or Smokeless? The original 38 S&W was far from anemic.

Murph

 

[Doc Argyle]

38 Top Break

Serial # is 334377. Sorry for the crappy photos but my camera is on its last legs.

 

[gmborkovic]

Nice gun and box. Case colors appear vivid. They turn up from time to time.

 

[BMur]

Box & Gun

Very nice gun and box.

The Orange label box is a pretty early box and fairly common but not in this exceptional condition. There are two types of orange labels that I've seen. This is the earlier label.

The gun dates to post 1896 having the Logo on the right-side frame. It's likely that this box was for an earlier DA but a very nice combo. The correct box for this late 3rd model is a cream-colored orange labeled box.


Murph

 

[mmaher94087]

Murph, would you have an example of "...a cream-colored orange labeled box."? I have only seen brown and russet boxes with orange, white or green labels depending upon the revolver's finish.

Doc Argyle, congratulations on having a superb example of this revolver. Condition and the box are outstanding.

 

[BMur]

Boxes

Hey Mike,
I have some pretty good research material on the SA and DA boxes for the 32's and 38's. Let me just say first that there is no solid method to date the early boxes. The post 1900 boxes have a distinct label change seen in the last photo. So all of this is theoretical only based on what I've found over the years.

Photo one is the early deep orange label. Notice the pattern/design and the use of capitol letters in ACTION
This would be the model 1 DA straight cut side plate and model 2. Also likely early model 3's but very early only.

If you look at the OP's label it's the later label design but still has capitol letters. So still an earlier box from my research.

Photo two is the cream color orange label with a capitol A and small letters following. That from my research is the later label post 1895ish. The last of the antique boxes or very close to it.

The last box is an excellent example of putting the wrong mint gun into a late box. That's a model 2 inserted into a post 1900 mint box. Looks nice but it's not a matched set by no less than 20 years. That part is not theoretical. That's definitely a late box.

Murph

 

[mmaher94087]

Aah, I believe you were referring to the label being "cream-colored". I was hung up on the BOX being cream-colored and was thinking I needed to add another to my collection. BTW, nice boxes.

 

[MattLarmore]

I have a .32 top-break and man I just LOVE the way they look. I didn't see anyone mention an approximate value though, hopefully someone can enlighten us both. Also if you end up wanting to sell definitely post here first!

 

[BMur]

Market value

I have a .32 top-break and man I just LOVE the way they look. I didn't see anyone mention an approximate value though, hopefully someone can enlighten us both. Also if you end up wanting to sell definitely post here first!

Market value is extremely dynamic right now.
You listen to old collectors and you tend to get old values that are not current.
Listen to dealers and you'll get inflated values that are often not realized for 10 years!
The best thing to do is watch the gun sites and keep your perspective current. It's often amazing to see what antiques sell for now. One thing is certain. Prices are NOT going down!
Guns that old collectors consider to be parts guns are selling for an amazing price. That tells me the market has continued interest and is hungry for investment. I like it! It's a great hobby and great people that will help you make solid investments.(for the most part).

Murph

 

[BMur]

Boxes

Aah, I believe you were referring to the label being "cream-colored". I was hung up on the BOX being cream-colored and was thinking I needed to add another to my collection. BTW, nice boxes.

Thanks Mike,
I'm sure glad I bought into boxes years ago. I'm priced out now. I still think original boxes are a solid investment.

Murph