S&W not happy with aftermarket

On another forum(minor league), who produces guns where the rails fall off(there's only one) :rolleyes:, they're all in a tizzy over this, truth be damned.
Kind of hilarious reading the fan boy posts. :D
 
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ladder13 said:
On another forum(minor league), who produces guns where the rails fall off(there's only one) :rolleyes:, they're all in a tizzy over this, truth be damned.
Kind of hilarious reading the fan boy posts. :D
Click to expand...

I'll still take one of those so-called "minor league" guns over a M&P. At least they can build metal and plastic guns that actually work without spending $200 in Apex parts. They can also build a 9mm barrel that can hit what you aim at.

In addition, if you weren't a troll, you'd also see that Brownells/Apex/So forth isn't selling the gun in question. They took an M&P, put the majority of all their mods they can do to one in order to sell their individual parts. Not the full gun.

In addition, you don't see Glock threatening everyone with legal action for building a "Dream Glock" that they show off at SHOT Show.

If the M&P was actually worth anything, S&W wouldn't need General Dynamics to fix their own gun.
 
huh?

DanHend said:
I'll still take one of those so-called "minor league" guns over a M&P. At least they can build metal and plastic guns that actually work without spending $200 in Apex parts. They can also build a 9mm barrel that can hit what you aim at.

In addition, if you weren't a troll, you'd also see that Brownells/Apex/So forth isn't selling the gun in question. They took an M&P, put the majority of all their mods they can do to one in order to sell their individual parts. Not the full gun.

In addition, you don't see Glock threatening everyone with legal action for building a "Dream Glock" that they show off at SHOT Show.

If the M&P was actually worth anything, S&W wouldn't need General Dynamics to fix their own gun.
Click to expand...

and the reason for your being a member and reader of an M&P forum is.................? just askin'
 
I think there are language issues around how prominently they display and use the S&W name and logo. If I say, "This dream gun started as an S&W but we modded it." And then talk about what great stuff I did is one thing. Too much description of it as "an S&W" starts to imply that they are authorized or supported by S&W. It's a fair point, the purchaser could be misled into thinking Smith's engineers and warrantee stand behind the package.

Of course Smith's letter was official sounding and scary, it was written by lawyers.
 
Another Press release on the one-of-a-kind "dream gun"

Page not found - AmmoLand.com Shooting Sports News

"The Brownells Dream Guns Project was started in 2011 to help feature the wide range of parts and accessories available from Brownells that customers can use to upgrade and customize their own pistols, rifles and shotguns. To date over 100 Dream Guns have been built and are available for review at Brownells.com."

In other words, this is a single gun, assembled with parts from industry suppliers, customized by gunsmiths, highlighting the opportunities in the marketspace, not for sale to the public, intended as a vehicle to advertise said parts and services.

And the Legal team at S&W seized on this as a good idea to issue a Cease and Desist letter. What a bunch of schmucks.
 
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And even with $200 in "upgrades" still 2-300 cheaper.


smith-wesson-shield-660x434.jpg
 
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IP law firms are usually very aggressive in enforcing IP rights. They are objecting to the appearance of the S&W logo in the "Dream Gun" promotional material. There are pros and cons to enforcing your IP rights aggressively; S&W will find out what the cons are pretty quickly if they don't put that IP law firm on a leash.
 
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QUOTE:

Therefore, just making a modification doesn't void the warranty. Malfunctions resulting from that modification isn't covered under the warranty. However, I guarantee that if you modify your pistol this heavily, S&W will claim that any malfunction you have is related to the mods. CLOSE QUOTE

I'm not sure I've ever made a warranty claim unless there was a malfunction. The same lawyers who sent this letter will advise their clients to "claim that any malfunction you have is related to the mods" for any home parts replacement beyond grips. I never attended the S&W armorer's school, so I am not a "qualified gunsmith" and any malfunction thereafter is arguably my doing. A distinction without a difference.
 
S&W not happy with aftermarket

This could be disastrous not just for the firearm industry, but also a similar mod mentality product: the automobile. I've heard rumors in the past year or so of auto manufacturers considering such actions as these via forums and so far nothing has materialized, but from what I understand in regards to legal precedent, is that all it takes is one major lawsuit to win. This then gives future plaintiff's the no pun intended, ammo, to bolster their own individual case.

I plan on sending a brief and polite note to s&w customer service, explaining to them how I and many others choose their product for the very ability to modify to our personal taste/preference. How this has been an industry norm from day one and if in fact this hinders my ability to personalize, I will no longer continue to grow my personal collection of future smith and wesson products.
It can't hurt, but being realistic probably won't help either 
 
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Buford57 said:
Rastoff said:
Therefore, just making a modification doesn't void the warranty. Malfunctions resulting from that modification isn't covered under the warranty. However, I guarantee that if you modify your pistol this heavily, S&W will claim that any malfunction you have is related to the mods.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure I've ever made a warranty claim unless there was a malfunction.
....
A distinction without a difference.
Click to expand...
Not at all. The implication made by others is that any modification will void the warranty. For example, milling the slide will completely void the warranty. However, if the malfunction you have is a magazine dropping because of a faulty mag catch, this would still be covered even though the gun was modified. See?


This is all a moot point though. If what okiegtrider posted is true, S&W has backpedaled and withdrawn their objection.
 
Buford57 said:
QUOTE:

Therefore, just making a modification doesn't void the warranty. Malfunctions resulting from that modification isn't covered under the warranty. However, I guarantee that if you modify your pistol this heavily, S&W will claim that any malfunction you have is related to the mods. CLOSE QUOTE

I'm not sure I've ever made a warranty claim unless there was a malfunction. The same lawyers who sent this letter will advise their clients to "claim that any malfunction you have is related to the mods" for any home parts replacement beyond grips. I never attended the S&W armorer's school, so I am not a "qualified gunsmith" and any malfunction thereafter is arguably my doing. A distinction without a difference.
Click to expand...
Read up on the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act; it's incumbent on the manufacturer to prove any malfunctions are as a direct result of the modifications before they can refuse to honor the warranty.
 
sandmansans said:
This could be disastrous not just for the firearm industry, but also a similar mod mentality product: the automobile. I've heard rumors in the past year or so of auto manufacturers considering such actions as these via forums and so far nothing has materialized, but from what I understand in regards to legal precedent, is that all it takes is one major lawsuit to win. This then gives future plaintiff's the no pun intended, ammo, to bolster their own individual case.

I plan on sending a brief and polite note to s&w customer service, explaining to them how I and many others choose their product for the very ability to modify to our personal taste/preference. How this has been an industry norm from day one and if in fact this hinders my ability to personalize, I will no longer continue to grow my personal collection of future smith and wesson products.
It can't hurt, but being realistic probably won't help either 
Click to expand...
You do realize this not only isn't about modifying firearms, but ultimately isn't about anything -- S&W misunderstood the purpose and intention of the "Dream Gun", overreacted, and has since walked it entirely back.

Modify away -- you're safe. ;)
 
Hapworth said:
Read up on the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act; it's incumbent on the manufacturer to prove any malfunctions are as a direct result of the modifications before they can refuse to honor the warranty.
Click to expand...

This, I seem to recall that one of the reasons this came about was that one of the auto manufacturers (will remain nameless) was trying to deny warranty coverage if the owners didn't have service done at authorized dealerships. A number of owners started complaining (it was an expensive car, so their voice got heard) and the legislation came to be. Anymore, unless it's an obvious reason (oil filter fell off for example) most manufacturers just cover the failure. From what I've read, the S&W thing was blamed on an overzealous legal department at S&W. Smith & Wesson "Did Not Fully Understand" Dream Gun, Apologizes
 
ladder13 said:
On another forum(minor league), who produces guns where the rails fall off(there's only one) :rolleyes:, they're all in a tizzy over this, truth be damned.
Kind of hilarious reading the fan boy posts. :D
Click to expand...

OH come now 13 let's be honest here:
"ladder13
Member
posted December 22, 2015 10:37 PM Hide Post
Sig ever fix the crappy rails on their guns? I had a P226 where the rails fell off, hope they improved the guns since then."

Posted in the SIG forum you did, got spanked by LDD and a few others.
I'd like to see pics of this railess SIG, I know full well that the mud rail pieces were problems but SIG fixed em.
By the way welcome to the SIG forum! 😊👍😂
 
Personally I think the M&P platform is fine just the way it is. Other than changing sights to fit your preference/failing eyes, I don't see the need for any modifications. I think the primary purpose of most aftermarket products is to get you to open your wallet. Unless you are competing at a very high level, is there really a need for a trigger job?
 
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