S&W Performance Center 10mm & Hardcast Ammo

[41special]

Been researching this. The problem crops up with the wider nose of the 10mm hardcast WFN-GC bullet shape.

Somehow the bullet contacts the inside of the magazine release causing an unintentional magazine drop, this of course is less than optimal when pulling down on a grizzly in a life threatening situation.

As this type of ammo would be in my gun while using this particular autoloader it's of interest to me.

Thoughts?


41

 

[STORMINORMAN]

Go to a less "WIDE nose"HC bullet...? I load the MBC 180gr coated 18 Brinell TCFP .401 which work fine in my XDM Elite.

They should do the job?

CHEERS!

 

[Farmer17]

There are many manufacturers of "bear protection" 10mm ammo. The bullets around 200 grains or lighter should be fine, I use Sig 180 grain ammo at 1250 fps from my 4" M&P. It's very accurate, has manageable recoil, 100% reliable, and not near as expensive as the boutique ammo.

 

[gwpercle]

Try a Truncated Cone bullet design in your auto-loader ...

No matter how effective a WFN might be ... if it won't function properly in your gun ...
you don't want to use it .

Might be a good excuse to buy a 10mm Revolver !!!

They will shoot the WFN with no problems .
Gary

 

[Autonomous]

Wide meplats on 10mm bullets are a known issue.
More than one 220gr SWC has had to be redesigned.
It's the reason a lot of folks limit their 10mm SWCs to 200gr max.

 

[41special]

Wide meplats on 10mm bullets are a known issue.
More than one 220gr SWC has had to be redesigned.
It's the reason a lot of folks limit their 10mm SWCs to 200gr max.

Good to know.

The load I worked up for my Glock uses the Montana Bullet Works 200 grain hardcast WFN-GC AA #9 and a magnum primer. I really like to run the same load in the Smith.

 

[Autonomous]

According to their website, MBW will be shutting their doors unless a buyer is found.

 

[STORMINORMAN]

It is my experience that feeding issues can often be remedied by a change in OAL and a corresponding minor reduction in powder without seriously affecting the ballistics of the previously developed ("worked up") load.

Only a few test examples usually can determine if it is feasible.

Cheers!

 

[Nanuk]

According to their website, MBW will be shutting their doors unless a buyer is found.

I saw that....

 

[41special]

It is my experience that feeding issues can often be remedied by a change in OAL and a corresponding minor reduction in powder without seriously affecting the ballistics of the previously developed ("worked up") load.

Only a few test examples usually can determine if it is feasible.

Cheers!

Good to know.

41

 

[mrshyvley]

Been researching this. The problem crops up with the wider nose of the 10mm hardcast WFN-GC bullet shape.

Somehow the bullet contacts the inside of the magazine release causing an unintentional magazine drop, this of course is less than optimal when pulling down on a grizzly in a life threatening situation.

As this type of ammo would be in my gun while using this particular autoloader it's of interest to me.

Thoughts?


41

Mine shoots everything fine other than the wide flat tipped cartridges.

Yes, I was one of the people who did experiments on this as my 10mm M&P 4.6" jammed and/or popped the magazine out when I tried to fire Double Tap 200 grain hard cast ammo with the wide end.
I too came to the conclusion that the bullet edge could be hitting the magazine release.

BUT TRY SOMETHING ELSE.
Load the magazine, but stop loading it before there are enough rounds for the end of the cartridges to hit the magazine release.
In MY M&P, it still jams or ejects the magazine.

NEXT, load the same amount of cartridges and this time, push in one the opposite side of the magazine release button so it can't move.
On mine, pushing on the far side of the magazine release so it can't move prevents the magazine from popping out, but then it always jams with the bullet end jammed against the top of the opening of the chamber.

What I think could also be popping the magazine out is when the cartridge is angled nose up against the top opening of the chamber, she slide is pushing against the back of the cartridge and there is a strong down force as the slide is trying to close.
This could be pushing the magazine down and popping it loose.

 

[41special]

I've only ran some 180 XTP @ 1150 with Power Pistol in mine so far. Tomorrow will try the Sig Sauer factory 180 FMJ it runs @ +1200 in my G20.

Now I've talked with 2 other guys with this exact same pistol and theirs will run the 200/220 grain Buffalo Bore & Double Tap heavy lead with no issues. So apparently some will & some won't.


So after some break in i'll run the hardcast load & hopefully my particular gun will run it without a hitch

 

[Nanuk]

I've only ran some 180 XTP @ 1150 with Power Pistol in mine so far. Tomorrow will try the Sig Sauer factory 180 FMJ it runs @ +1200 in my G20.

Now I've talked with 2 other guys with this exact same pistol and theirs will run the Buffalo Bore & Double Tap heavy lead with no issues. So apparently some will & some won't.


So after some break in i'll run the hardcast load & hopefully my particular gun will run it without a hitch

I have some 200 grn WFNGC loaded up. I have not had a chance to try them out.

 

[Nanuk]

Mine shoots everything fine other than the wide flat tipped cartridges.

Yes, I was one of the people who did experiments on this as my 10mm M&P 4.6" jammed and/or popped the magazine out when I tried to fire Double Tap 200 grain hard cast ammo with the wide end.
I too came to the conclusion that the bullet edge could be hitting the magazine release.

BUT TRY SOMETHING ELSE.
Load the magazine, but stop loading it before there are enough rounds for the end of the cartridges to hit the magazine release.
In MY M&P, it still jams or ejects the magazine.

NEXT, load the same amount of cartridges and this time, push in one the opposite side of the magazine release button so it can't move.
On mine, pushing on the far side of the magazine release so it can't move prevents the magazine from popping out, but then it always jams with the bullet end jammed against the top of the opening of the chamber.

What I think could also be popping the magazine out is when the cartridge is angled nose up against the top opening of the chamber, she slide is pushing against the back of the cartridge and there is a strong down force as the slide is trying to close.
This could be pushing the magazine down and popping it loose.

The mag catch is faulty then.

 

[41special]

The mag catch is faulty then.

That's the common denominator. But not on all pistols. Some work with all ammo types

Some get failure to feed the ammo smoothly and hang up, some simply drop the entire magazine out of the pistol itself apon firing the 1st shot

My practice is to load my ammo to maximum cartridge OAL. If my gun fails with the WFN-GC bullet profile my 1st adjustment will be seating the bullet a bit deeper into the case to create more room


41

 

[AJ]

No dog in this fight, however............. I have both a S&W 610 and a 10 MM auto. No bears here where I live, do have gators and getting some pythons (not Colts). My 10 MM Auto isn't a S&W but a Ruger SR1911 10MM. It functions with anything that I put through it. It is even ported. Actually, I prefer it to the 610 (yes, I know that is blasphemy).

 

[Nanuk]

That's the common denominator. But not on all pistols. Some work with all ammo types

Some get failure to feed the ammo smoothly and hang up, some simply drop the entire magazine out of the pistol itself apon firing the 1st shot

My practice is to load my ammo to maximum cartridge OAL. If my gun fails with the WFN-GC bullet profile my 1st adjustment will be seating the bullet a bit deeper into the case to create more room


41

Those are multiple problems. The magazine coming out only has to do with the magazine and the magazine catch, the only other part could be the mag catch spring. The bullet profile could be the culprit, but it would do it every time.

To analyze malfunctions the interaction between the variables are the clue.

 

[sparkyvega]

I absolutely agree. I sent the XTEN down the road because it couldn't digest WFN ammo.
My M610 is a winner!

No matter how effective a WFN might be ... if it won't function properly in your gun ...
you don't want to use it .

Might be a good excuse to buy a 10mm Revolver !!!

They will shoot the WFN with no problems .
Gary

The SA XDM-10s can handle wide meplats with aplomb!

Wide meplats on 10mm bullets are a known issue.
More than one 220gr SWC has had to be redesigned.
It's the reason a lot of folks limit their 10mm SWCs to 200gr max.

Sadly, my SR1911-10 couldn't handle full-house 10mm ammo.

No dog in this fight, however............. I have both a S&W 610 and a 10 MM auto. No bears here where I live, do have gators and getting some pythons (not Colts). My 10 MM Auto isn't a S&W but a Ruger SR1911 10MM. It functions with anything that I put through it. It is even ported. Actually, I prefer it to the 610 (yes, I know that is blasphemy).

View attachment 753565

 

[AJ]

Sadly, my SR1911-10 couldn't handle full-house 10mm ammo.

View attachment 754041

Did Ruger replace it? I have not had any problems with mine so for. I wonder if the porting had something to do with that.

 

[sparkyvega]

Ruger replaced the barrel. Shot fine, but I couldn't trust it. I push my 10mms pretty hard. The XDMs hold up well. So do the Glucks.

 

[41special]

Well shot my S&W 2.0 performance center 10mm today with my home brewed 200 WFN-GC hardcast ammo.

Only took one 15 round magazine with the bear ammo as I was expecting the worst. But low & behold it ran like a champ. Function was as smooth as silk, this ammo hits hard! Recoil was definitely there but the porting controls muzzle rise better than the G20.

As another plus the longer barrel on the Smith got me up to 1200 fps on the Garmin, the G20 runs this ammo @ 1150.

Good day all the way around.

41

 

[ultratec00]

Well shot my S&W 2.0 performance center 10mm today with my home brewed 200 WFN-GC hardcast ammo.

Only took one 15 round magazine with the bear ammo as I was expecting the worst. But low & behold it ran like a champ. Function was as smooth as silk, this ammo hits hard! Recoil was definitely there but the porting controls muzzle rise better than the G20.

As another plus the longer barrel on the Smith got me up to 1200 fps on the Garmin, the G20 runs this ammo @ 1150.

Good day all the way around.

41

Galloway Precision makes stainless steel guide rods that work on this model. From what I have read, stock is around 17 lbs, which seems light if the intent is to always run solid 10mm loads. I'm running a 24 lb recoil spring in my PC, works fine, reduces recoil, and has to help save the frame over time.

 

[Hawg Rider]

I'm glad that this thread popped up. I have had no issues at all with my M&P 10mm 2.0 (4.6" bbl.) since I bought it in 2022, but I've only been shooting FMJ, JHP, and Black Hills Honey Badger ammo. I've wondered about which cast bullet ammo I should try out before heading out into the woods and bear country. I'm going to pick up some Double Tap Cast 200 gr. and 200 gr. Federal Solid Core ammo and see how they perform.

 

[41special]

I might

Galloway Precision makes stainless steel guide rods that work on this model. From what I have read, stock is around 17 lbs, which seems light if the intent is to always run solid 10mm loads. I'm running a 24 lb recoil spring in my PC, works fine, reduces recoil, and has to help save the frame over time.

I might just do that.

I did upgrade the Glock 20 to a stainless steel guide rod, can't remember the exact weight, seems like I went from the stock spring weight of 17-18 lbs to a 22 lb.

Can't really tell anything from shooting with one or the other installed but if it's better for the long term health of the pistol it's worth the investment.


41

 

[41special]

Those are

I'm glad that this thread popped up. I have had no issues at all with my M&P 10mm 2.0 (4.6" bbl.) since I bought it in 2022, but I've only been shooting FMJ, JHP, and Black Hills Honey Badger ammo. I've wondered about which cast bullet ammo I should try out before heading out into the woods and bear country. I'm going to pick up some Double Tap Cast 200 gr. and 200 gr. Federal Solid Core ammo and see how they perform.

Good call, those are the 2 brands of factory ammo I'd try 1st myself. Hopefully they run well in your 2.0.

41

 

[mrshyvley]

Those are



Good call, those are the 2 brands of factory ammo I'd try 1st myself. Hopefully they run well in your 2.0.

41

I don't know about Black Hills Honey Badger ammo, but I do know that my M&P 10mm 4.6" won't shoot Double Tap 200 grain Hard Cast without jamming and/or dropping the magazine.
Even with a 22# recoil spring and stiffer magazine springs.
I now have a 24# recoil spring in it but haven't tried it yet.

EVERYTHING ELSE I've fired in it has always worked just fine, even before I made any changes to it.

 

[AJ]

Like I stated in ost#16, no bears in the area. But I do have about 1K of various 10MM ammo on hand. here is some of it by various manufacturers.

 

[41special]

I'm not familiar with that Cor Bon ammo..... RNPN??

 

[sparkyvega]

That's a good start!

But I do have about 1K of various 10MM ammo on hand. here is some of it by various manufacturers.

 

[AJ]

I'm not familiar with that Cor Bon ammo..... RNPN??

Do an on-line search. It is for sale.