Sad manufacturing

[TRK@]

I purchased a new 351c on the 20th of last month only to discover that it had some serious manufacturing flaws as well as cosmetic issues. Never even attempted to fire the revolver, just sent it back. I'm my own worst enemy, as I had some real problems 3 years ago with a new 442 I purchased. Those issues were never resolved, i just gave up. I inspected the 351c as well I thought I needed, but as you know, you shouldn't dry fire rimfire without snaps or old casings. When I got it home and started opening and closing it more, it was binding a bit. I looked at the front of the cylinder and noticed it was being torn up by the forcing cone. The crane was also out of alignment. The forcing cone had a very sharp to the touch ring around it that had not been deburred. Then I looked at the front of the ejector rod and noticed that the center had not been drilled on center. It was completely off, almost to the point of drilling through the wall. I've purchased my last Smith. This QC is out of control. They must have filled their plant with cheap labor.

 

[Bullet Bob]

Hope you feel better now.

 

[TRK@]

What's your problem Bullet Nob? Are you one of those fanbois?

 

[SGT ROCK 11B]

I've purchased my last Smith. This QC is out of control. They must have filled their plant with cheap labor.

I am unhappy with the J frame revolvers too. (mostly the ones made in the last 20 years) But I do have a 686 Plus that I am very pleased with.

Otherwise I would suggest for anyone wanting a snubnose revolver a Kimber K6XS for pocket carry or a Kimber K6S for OWB carry. Or a used Colt Detective Special.

 

[Countrycuz]

Two J frames and a Shield in the last 5 years. No problems.

 

[AlHunt]

I'd be pretty disappointed with the face of that brand new cylinder scratching itself to Hades. And who knows what to think about that ejector rod knob so off center. It probably functions fine but Smith ought to be embarrassed, nonetheless.

 

[toddimusnimski]

What's your problem Bullet Nob? Are you one of those fanbois?

I don't think you'll get much argument about the erratic quality control from the mothership and glad you shared your experience. If enough customers complain to them they will (hopefully) get the message and start investing more attention to their firearms before they go out the door.

Bob is a 20+ year member here and SWCA member to boot. I'd say he's probably seen it all in his time, both good products and bad. You may want to ease up a little as we're all used to seeing members who join just to vent about a problem, and then are never seen again. I hope you stick around and give us an update on your 351c, assuming you're going to contact them about sending it back for repair. You deserve better than what you were sold.

Welcome to the Forum!

Todd

 

[stansdds]

S&W seems to have a lot of QC issues these days. And here we thought the Bangor Punta and Tompkins PLC eras were bad.

 

[Oldsalt66]

Hopefully the company will make things right for you

Good luck.

 

[Tom S.]

Hopefully, this is just a phase S&W is going through. I recently bought a M&P 22 magnum that I sent back to S&W three times for feed/eject failures. Yesterday they sent me a PM saying they were replacing the firearm with a new one. With other returns, they have been very responsive and fixed the issue the first time with a rapid turn around time but sometimes, as with any manufacturer, you need to hold their feet to the fire.

 

[petepeterson]

My 43c went back 3 times. It's still not "right", but I decided it's good enough for what I need it to do. I won't be staking my life on it, unless the field mice mount an organized counter-attack.

I've mostly bought used revolvers, and had great luck. I finally splurged on a new on that I wanted, and got a lemon.
Lesson learned.

 

[Hawg Rider]

Sorry to hear about your QC issues with S&W! We're seeing quite a bit of that here on the Forum lately, and it's very disappointing. The new S&W revolvers haven't been ranked in the Top 5 sellers (G&A monthly sales records) for a couple of years now...with Colt and Ruger selling the most. With all of the new Colt, Ruger, Kimber, and Taurus offerings, and I'm sure more to follow, S&W may be putting themselves out of the revolver market. They had better start thinking outside of the box, as well as fix their manufacturing, QC, and Customer Service problems.

 

[Jacksawyer]

Purchased 2 new revolvers this year, a 617 and 648. Both had qc issues. Both had rear sight issues. Someone at the factory is cranking the elevation screws down as they came frozen. Still waiting on parts. The 617 had the bolt lock pin loose and almost fell out. I fixed that myself. Cylinder ejector rod was loose, the forcing cone was very sharp also.
Almost $1g revolvers shouldn’t have these problems out of the box.

Jack

 

[Autonomous]

I purchased a new 351c on the 20th of last month only to discover that it had some serious manufacturing flaws as well as cosmetic issues... just sent it back. I'm my own worst enemy, as I had some real problems 3 years ago with a new 442 I purchased. Those issues were never resolved, i just gave up.

The only tool we have to influence the business majors running S&W is to make them pay the shipping to fix every defect they sell.
Huge PITA for us but our choice is to either roll over (which their bean counters make bank on) or make them ship and repair every legitimate defect. Even if it takes five round trips, suck it up and make them honor the warranty.

 

[Brian Parrish]

Charter Arms

This sort of thing is consistent with the Charter Arms business model.
The customer is the QC division. Isn't this what it takes to be profitable these days? Hasn't Wal-Mart proved it? Sell products that look OK upon cursory inspection at the cheapest price. A computer algorithm handles the customer service.

The people on our wonderful forum here, whom I so enjoy and appreciate, have not adjusted their price expectations for inflation. Also, here on our forum we are infusing the company name with a reverence that belongs to the historical company, which was earned by past business practices that are simply no longer viable today.

I invite correction and contradiction with my thanks!
BrianD

 

[petepeterson]

Spot on!

I invite correction and contradiction with my thanks!
BrianD

You'll get neither from me.

 

[10Mad]

Two J frames and a Shield in the last 5 years. No problems.

Your good luck sir
I’ve had 2 j frames and a shield in the last 5 years as well, and all 3 had issues. I was lucky in that only the j frames had to go back.
I had been wanting to pick up the new 32 revolver but am simply tired of dealing with problems.

 

[MetalMan]

Man, I hate reading about these QC issues…

My “youngest” S&W is a mid-2021 640-1 Pro which has been mechanically flawless…so, I guess I should consider myself fortunate.

My other S&W’s - all J’s and K’s - date from 1968 to 1994 and, evidently, are from another “era” as pertains to their quality…

Still looking for a birth year (1955) gun…

 

[SGT ROCK 11B]

Two J frames and a Shield in the last 5 years. No problems.

How many rounds downrange?

 

[SGT ROCK 11B]

Hopefully, this is just a phase S&W is going through. I recently bought a M&P 22 magnum that I sent back to S&W three times for feed/eject failures. Yesterday they sent me a PM saying they were replacing the firearm with a new one. With other returns, they have been very responsive and fixed the issue the first time with a rapid turn around time but sometimes, as with any manufacturer, you need to hold their feet to the fire.

Tom that is so crazy when they have to send a new firearm instead of fixing 'the lemon'.

I missed the days when S&W had local Authorized Warranty Service Stations. I had two just minutes from my house and Colt had a similar program and theirs's were even closer.

 

[SGT ROCK 11B]

I've mostly bought used revolvers, and had great luck. I finally splurged on a new on that I wanted, and got a lemon.
Lesson learned.

I have done well on used revolvers too.

My 1964 15-2 is better than anything in the new Gun Cabinet at my LGS today.

 

[Tom S.]

This sort of thing is consistent with the Charter Arms business model.
The customer is the QC division. Isn't this what it takes to be profitable these days? Hasn't Wal-Mart proved it? Sell products that look OK upon cursory inspection at the cheapest price. A computer algorithm handles the customer service.

The people on our wonderful forum here, whom I so enjoy and appreciate, have not adjusted their price expectations for inflation. Also, here on our forum we are infusing the company name with a reverence that belongs to the historical company, which was earned by past business practices that are simply no longer viable today.

I invite correction and contradiction with my thanks!
BrianD

I hate to say it but very few US manufacturers have learned the lesson the auto industry learned back in the 70's, 80's and 90's when the Japanese imports the Big Three used to laugh at started eating their lunch and dinner too. After their defeat in WWII, the Japanese economy and industry was in shambles and they struggled to get back on their feet by producing cheaply made items that became called Japanese junk, because it was. An American by the name of Dr. Deming was brought in. The lesson he taught was that quality didn't cost, it paid. The money spent to ensure a product was flawless helped the manufacture to gain customers instead of loose them. The Japanese not only ran with the idea, they helped refine it to empower each worker to stop the work flow if he/she discovered a flaw. They would examine the flaw, decide what caused it, then fix the cause so it couldn't happen again. The results were soon Japanese cars began to attract buyers because they developed a reputation for quality, cost and economy - both in the delivered price as well as operating costs. The Big Three nearly went under before they succeeded in mending their ways. Still, they lost so much market share, they will never be the powerhouses they once were.

Much of the remaining US industry still is operating under the old ways. While the firearms industry has foreign competition, most of it remains in the semi-auto sector and fortunately, those are easily enough produced so that competition from outside the US, at least after we got over the "Glock-Shock" is nowhere near the boogie man the Japanese had become to the Big 3.

Revolvers are different matter however. The US remains the largest manufacturer and consumer of wheel guns in the world. Outside of a small segment of producers of historic relics and the rather handsomely priced Korth, there really is no competition other than what resides in the US. And since the market is relatively small, there isn't a huge incentive for manufacturers to spend the money training workers and then paying them high wages/benefits to retain them in order to make the changes needed to increase the quality of the end product. On top of that, wheel guns are far more labor intensive to make, therefore more costly. It is doubtful we will see much improvement in the coming years, especially when corporate leaders are profiteers rather than enthusiasts.

That's $.02 on it!

 

[rwsmith]

Any S&W revolver.....

....made past around 2003 is a new one to me. I think my newest one right now is my 686 no dash, around 1980.

 

[chief38]

S&W'a revolver business was theirs to loose - and they are succeeding in leaps and bounds! They have become the best salesmen for the new line of Colt's which BTW are fantastic IMO.

Over the last decade or so, many of he US gun manufacturers have up'd their QC quite a bit. S&W's has continues to fall. I am not privy to their corporate structure or who and how they run the company, but obviously they are well out of their league. The S&W Board of Directors should seek out a qualified CEO for the position and demand better performance! I just don't get how they think they can stay in business with their current state of QC. I hope your issues get resolved satisfactorily.

 

[shawn mccarver]

It is just amazing to me that S&W would send out a product with those kind of defects. There is no excuse. Shame on S&W.

 

[Cotis]

Please excuse my ignorance, but where are the revolvers being made now? I know the HQ moved to Maryville, and I have seen pistols marked from there. Has everything moved? Can’t help but to think all of this transition has negatively impacted QC either way.

 

[SWFan27]

I just bought a brand-new Smith & Wesson Model 617, and I am waiting for the ten day waiting period to expire. I ordered from the dealer's online store and was bummed to see the silver MIM trigger only had a couple of black streaks on one side. At least the other side has coloring on about 50% of it. The triggers on my S&W Model 66-8 and my 686+ look fine.

I know it is a small complaint, but I just spent a thousand dollars on a 22 revolver and S&W should have caught that in their QA process. I might actually send it back to S&W for warranty work as soon as I pick it up in a few days.

 

[Model 15-4ever]

Hopefully, this is just a phase S&W is going through...

This "phase" has been going on for years now. Time to call the surgeon and cut away the disease.

Nice looking forcing cone, huh? Brand new 36-10 Classic from last year's production. The cylinder face had matching engraving. Returned THREE times with the same and/or new defects each time. They finally replaced it after I contacted an exec there I know.

 

[HOUSTON RICK]

Sorry you had a bad experience and thank ya'll for taking the hit for the rest of us.

 

[dogdoc]

The new colts are virtually flawless.