Sad manufacturing

[SGT ROCK 11B]

I've mostly bought used revolvers, and had great luck. I finally splurged on a new on that I wanted, and got a lemon.
Lesson learned.

I have done well on used revolvers too.

My 1964 15-2 is better than anything in the new Gun Cabinet at my LGS today.

 

[Tom S.]

This sort of thing is consistent with the Charter Arms business model.
The customer is the QC division. Isn't this what it takes to be profitable these days? Hasn't Wal-Mart proved it? Sell products that look OK upon cursory inspection at the cheapest price. A computer algorithm handles the customer service.

The people on our wonderful forum here, whom I so enjoy and appreciate, have not adjusted their price expectations for inflation. Also, here on our forum we are infusing the company name with a reverence that belongs to the historical company, which was earned by past business practices that are simply no longer viable today.

I invite correction and contradiction with my thanks!
BrianD

I hate to say it but very few US manufacturers have learned the lesson the auto industry learned back in the 70's, 80's and 90's when the Japanese imports the Big Three used to laugh at started eating their lunch and dinner too. After their defeat in WWII, the Japanese economy and industry was in shambles and they struggled to get back on their feet by producing cheaply made items that became called Japanese junk, because it was. An American by the name of Dr. Deming was brought in. The lesson he taught was that quality didn't cost, it paid. The money spent to ensure a product was flawless helped the manufacture to gain customers instead of loose them. The Japanese not only ran with the idea, they helped refine it to empower each worker to stop the work flow if he/she discovered a flaw. They would examine the flaw, decide what caused it, then fix the cause so it couldn't happen again. The results were soon Japanese cars began to attract buyers because they developed a reputation for quality, cost and economy - both in the delivered price as well as operating costs. The Big Three nearly went under before they succeeded in mending their ways. Still, they lost so much market share, they will never be the powerhouses they once were.

Much of the remaining US industry still is operating under the old ways. While the firearms industry has foreign competition, most of it remains in the semi-auto sector and fortunately, those are easily enough produced so that competition from outside the US, at least after we got over the "Glock-Shock" is nowhere near the boogie man the Japanese had become to the Big 3.

Revolvers are different matter however. The US remains the largest manufacturer and consumer of wheel guns in the world. Outside of a small segment of producers of historic relics and the rather handsomely priced Korth, there really is no competition other than what resides in the US. And since the market is relatively small, there isn't a huge incentive for manufacturers to spend the money training workers and then paying them high wages/benefits to retain them in order to make the changes needed to increase the quality of the end product. On top of that, wheel guns are far more labor intensive to make, therefore more costly. It is doubtful we will see much improvement in the coming years, especially when corporate leaders are profiteers rather than enthusiasts.

That's $.02 on it!

 

[rwsmith]

Any S&W revolver.....

....made past around 2003 is a new one to me. I think my newest one right now is my 686 no dash, around 1980.

 

[chief38]

S&W'a revolver business was theirs to loose - and they are succeeding in leaps and bounds! They have become the best salesmen for the new line of Colt's which BTW are fantastic IMO.

Over the last decade or so, many of he US gun manufacturers have up'd their QC quite a bit. S&W's has continues to fall. I am not privy to their corporate structure or who and how they run the company, but obviously they are well out of their league. The S&W Board of Directors should seek out a qualified CEO for the position and demand better performance! I just don't get how they think they can stay in business with their current state of QC. I hope your issues get resolved satisfactorily.

 

[shawn mccarver]

It is just amazing to me that S&W would send out a product with those kind of defects. There is no excuse. Shame on S&W.

 

[Cotis]

Please excuse my ignorance, but where are the revolvers being made now? I know the HQ moved to Maryville, and I have seen pistols marked from there. Has everything moved? Can’t help but to think all of this transition has negatively impacted QC either way.

 

[SWFan27]

I just bought a brand-new Smith & Wesson Model 617, and I am waiting for the ten day waiting period to expire. I ordered from the dealer's online store and was bummed to see the silver MIM trigger only had a couple of black streaks on one side. At least the other side has coloring on about 50% of it. The triggers on my S&W Model 66-8 and my 686+ look fine.

I know it is a small complaint, but I just spent a thousand dollars on a 22 revolver and S&W should have caught that in their QA process. I might actually send it back to S&W for warranty work as soon as I pick it up in a few days.

 

[Model 15-4ever]

Hopefully, this is just a phase S&W is going through...

This "phase" has been going on for years now. Time to call the surgeon and cut away the disease.

Nice looking forcing cone, huh? Brand new 36-10 Classic from last year's production. The cylinder face had matching engraving. Returned THREE times with the same and/or new defects each time. They finally replaced it after I contacted an exec there I know.

 

[HOUSTON RICK]

Sorry you had a bad experience and thank ya'll for taking the hit for the rest of us.

 

[dogdoc]

The new colts are virtually flawless.

 

[jjrr]

Sad is the word and in buying new guns you don’t get a test drive, just a visual. Pistols from days of high quality will last for generations so buying vintage is the way to go as long as still some in the market.

 

[stansdds]

The new colts are virtually flawless.

Cost more too, but I guess you do get what you pay for.

 

[Grayfox]

Seeing threads like this is the reason that none of my S&Ws is new enough to have a lock and only one has any MIM parts.
I realize that all businesses are there to make money, but when you put profit ahead of quality, you lose.

 

[dinooch]

I have had good luck with my 442 but my 340sc was a different story. Gouges in frame under forcing cone was supposedly my fault. They resolved it by selling me a Shield 45 at a very reasonable cost to replace it. I would have liked a replacement 340 but it was out of my price range. On the other hand I have a North American Arms .32acp Guardian that started malfunctioning suddenly an otherwise flawless firearm. They are replacing it with a new gun no questions asked in fact they are making it from scratch just for me. Other manufacturers should open their eyes and take care of customers like NAA does. They make more mini revolvers than Guardians (I have a 22lr mini) so they were out of inventory. I couldn't be happier.

 

[Yendor357]

In 2011 I made the mistake of buying a new 4 inch 617. The troubles started with the first cylinder of rounds fired. That gun went back 3 times before it shot like it should. Now the barrel timing is off and the front sight is canted to the left. The guy at S&W that I talked to wasted no time in telling me how much smarter than I, he was. It doesn’t take a Rocket Surgeon to figure out there’s something terribly wrong when bullets are tumbling at 25 yards. I haven’t bought another new Smith since.
I’ve since bought 3 Pythons and 2 Anacondas, and have a 4 inch Cobra Target on the way. Now, the Pythons and Anacondas have all gotten single action trigger jobs. Once you get that done, they blow anything Smith has made in the last 15 years, out of the water. My 3 inch Python shoots faster than my old 6 inch 686. You pay more for a Colt. In my opinion, they’re still a much better value.

Smith can make whatever they choose to make. Why they turn out the **** they do, is beyond me.

 

[tom2]

I also have two of the Smith wheelies that I bought new, but years ago, and the rest have always been used guns. I only ever had to send one back, an L frame magnum and I forget why but I no longer have it. I only had one smith I would consider a useless dud, a .22 escort that jammed consistently. Funny as the later .22 smiths autos seemed to have the same design as that little escort and work perfectly.

 

[Autonomous]

My feathers get ruffled when I read about guys buying guns made in Turkey and being surprised with how good they are.

Then I see an American icon like S&W not even pretending to produce quality product.

Thanks for letting me vent.

 

[Scoremaster]

TRK
I had a little surprise myself last week ..I went to pick up a M60 i had ordered from sportsman warehouse ,,,well first off before i ordered it i looked on many sites at price and reviews ..Well every site i looked at it came with what i call a black rubber banana grip which i thought cool i can get all three fingers around this grip ..When i opened the box at Sportsmans warehouse this m60 had a small boot grip on it that stopped at the bottom of the frame . When the clerk saw my surprise to his credit he did say i could return it (which i didnt) after a couple phone calls to
S&W they say they are gonna send me the "banana grip"
Good luck with yours my man

 

[Bullseye Smith]

About 2005 the old timers started to retire, I had a friend in the PC that I could get parts from and up dates. After they were gone they were replaced them with what ever they could find, had photo's showing them using a grinder to fit parts. They should be retiring about now. I'm a 1 00% S&W fan. The hand eject revolver has been around since 1894, I have one and it still shoots well. The Smith is the best revolver made, fitting is where they have the down fall, they need a OVER-HAUL.

 

[chief38]

About 2005 the old timers started to retire, I had a friend in the PC that I could get parts from and up dates. After they were gone they were replaced them with what ever they could find, had photo's showing them using a grinder to fit parts. They should be retiring about now. I'm a 1 00% S&W fan. The hand eject revolver has been around since 1894, I have one and it still shoots well. The Smith is the best revolver made, fitting is where they have the down fall, they need a OVER-HAUL.

Go back to the vintage models of 30, 40, 50, 60 plus years ago and I would agree with you all the way! Around the year 2000 something QC started slipping, they cheapened their production methods, used inferior materials and ten years after that their products were such that I would no linger buy a new one. Todays QC is at an all time low!

Of course I love S&W designs and that is why I am a member here. That said, I'd not buy a new gun from them that was made after the late 1990's - my own personal decision of course. I do agree when they were being run right, there was no better revolver or revolver manufacturer in the world but unfortunately they have people in charge of the Company who are completely out of their league. WHY their Board of directors hasn't seen fit to change this I don't get. This has been allowed to continue for way way too long and I truly believe this has brought the Company to an all time low - not just a temporary phase they are going through.

I do NOT enjoy stating these facts! I WISH they would see the light and act accordingly! I WANT them to flourish! No one who has been in this hobby for over 30+ years can deny these facts. S&W NEEDS a CEO who can turn them around, be proud of what they produce, produce it right and return the Company back onto its throne. If this continues much longer I feel they will reach the point of no return.