Sadly - Another .40 Shield Kaboom

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Offshell said:
Technically then, aside from a possible bad round, Underwood 135 should be good :D
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The Shield 40 will be fine with regular factory loads. (That is, loads that clearly conform to SAAMI specifications.)
And be sure that what's in the box is indeed regular factory loads.
Technically, uh, No.

:D
 
Yeah, I don't have a 40 shield. I was just responding about the part requiring it to meet SAAMI spec. I emailed them a bit ago about the ammo and they responded with this:
To the +P, they are actually within SAAMI specifications - however, at the top of the spectrum. We're in the process of taking the +P designation off of the labels, simply because it has caused many questions as to how the pressure is measured. Since we are within the specs, it seems to be causing more confusion that offering an idea as to what to expect.
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To the +P, they are actually within SAAMI specifications - however, at the top of the spectrum. We're in the process of taking the +P designation off of the labels, simply because it has caused many questions as to how the pressure is measured. Since we are within the specs, it seems to be causing more confusion that offering an idea as to what to expect.
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As I would expect. Decent of Underwood to correct their description.

A "top of the spectrum" round, a little thicker than normal case, a little slower than normal powder, a little more than normal powder, a little hotter than usual primer, a little too much bullet setback, a hot day, etc.. I don't want to go there.

There is a reason why SAAMI has not published a +P specification for the 40 S&W round.

It just could be that pressures become volatile, unpredictable, and unmanageable beyond the established load limits.
 
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I think S&W also needs to revise the Shield manual. It could be more clear. I can see how easy it would be for someone to read what it says about +P and think it would be okay to try it a little.

My S&W 686 Plus manual clearly says .38 S&W Special +P is acceptable, but it's kind of a no-brainer for that gun since the L frame was designed to handle continuous .357 Magnum heavy use.

My Ruger LCP manual clearly states in big red letters, "Do not use +P ammunition". I think the Shield manual should say that too.

I have found great value in reading this thread and thank the OP and others for the information. It was an eye opener and a great warning to others who could fall into such a situation.
 
Rastoff said:
Why should they change the manual? S&W says the gun can handle +P loads.
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Actually, no it doesn't. That's my point. It can give the impression that it says that, but it actually says using +P may exceed the margin of safety. That sounds like kaboom territory to me. I just think it should be less vague.
 
+P in a .40.

Where? I want some.

My Shield .40 still goes Kaboom with 180GR every time i pull the trigger. But im still slow at reloading around the 12th mag.
 
Smitty357 said:
+P in a .40.

Where? I want some.

My Shield .40 still goes Kaboom with 180GR every time i pull the trigger. But im still slow at reloading around the 12th mag.
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Hey Smitty, Hopefully you meant your Shield 40 goes bang every time you pull the trigger and not KaBoom. It can only do that once.
 
RussC said:
Roger

A class action lawsuit is the only way an attorney would take the case. $400 is nothing but if the number is multiplied by 100 you will peak an attorneys interest and one letter to S&W by that attorney will mean a quick settlement and free guns for everyone.

Russ
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The reality is MOST Kabooms are caused by out of specification ammo.

MOST out of specification ammo is caused by people using reloads.

OR people use lead ammo in Polygonal rifled barrels lead builds up.

I believe most people who report kabooms are shooting reloads or PREVIOUSLY shot lead ammo in polygonal rifled barrels even if it was 'factory' ammo which could be remanfactured ammo which is just 'professional' reloads.
 
Ok, so I have read every post on this topic and I have some questions and comments. First I have to say that I purchased a shield .40 last week and ran 50 rounds through it. I truly believe that Smith and Wesson knows that the shield cannot handle +p ammo. The frame is a lot smaller than a full size, so I think s&w will backtrack on their +p warnings. That being said, I am confused on what ammo I should purchase. What exactly is factory issued ammo? (Brand names for range and defense) I don't see the specific brands. BTW I'm pretty sure my shield was built last month....is that possible? I did buy the shield an hour away from s&w headquarters.

I would like to thank the OP for sharing his experience. I have truly learned a lot from your post and everyone's feedback. I am seriously thinking of going to the 9mm after this. I only bought the shield .40 because I have a full size m&p .40 with all the trimmings and it's too hard to conceal.....plus I can use the same ammo. S&W should be replacing these kaboom pistols for free and offering a gift card of some type. It's the least they can do, because I truly feel they are getting away with (no pun intended) murder. I am willing to pitch in for an objective opinion if this should happen again to someone. It now becomes the principle of the matter. Someone is going to get more than a numb hand next time.
 
As long as the above question as far as what 40 cal ammo should be used I have another question......

Is there some 9mm ammo I shouldn't shoot out of shield 9mm or subcompact Glock?
 
Cosme17

Factory ammo is ammo from any reputable manufacture.
any manufacture that claims to be selling plus p .40 isn't 100% reputable.
according to ssami there is no plus p .40.

I personally stay away from the cheap Wal-Mart value packs, they're cheap for a reason. Maybe they're professional reloads or maybe they are seconds. I dont know.

For target ammo I use 165gr speer lawman or federal American eagle.
The speer i buy by the case from cci in lewiston id. So directly from the manufacture.
The american eagle I was getting for free from work u ntill they switched to speer.

For self defense/ duty ammo I use 165gr speer gold dot. For the same reasons above but I dont buy it by the case. I buy two boxes more than I plan on shooting during the year. I also get a few free boxes from work.

The above mentioned ammo works great in my 40 fs(11,000 rds) 40c (2,000rds) & the shield 40 (750 rds)
 
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NCooper said:
Cosme17

Factory ammo is ammo from any reputable manufacture.
any manufacture that claims to be selling plus p .40 isn't 100% reputable.
according to ssami there is no plus p .40.

I personally stay away from the cheap Wal-Mart value packs, they're cheap for a reason. Maybe they're professional reloads or maybe they are seconds. I dont know.

For target ammo I use 165gr speer lawman or federal American eagle.
The speer i buy by the case from cci in lewiston id. So directly from the manufacture.
The american eagle I was getting for free from work u ntill they switched to speer.

For self defense/ duty ammo I use 165gr speer gold dot. For the same reasons above but I dont buy it by the case. I buy two boxes more than I plan on shooting during the year. I also get a few free boxes from work.

The above mentioned ammo works great in my 40 fs(11,000 rds) 40c (2,000rds) & the shield 40 (750 rds)
Click to expand...

Ok. Thank you. Can I go up to a 180 grain for my shield? I don't want to hijack this thread but I think it's important information since this thread is leaning towards an ammo issue. (+p)
 
180 grain doesn't make a round +P. It's just a heavier bullet

I don't know why you couldn't fire a 180 grain from a shield. I put a 100 rounds of federal American eagle through my shield.

S&W doesn't say you can't or shouldn't shoot 180 grain ammo from their guns. They advise against +P though.

Lets review the kabooms.
135 gr labeled as +P.. but they claim its with in saami specs.? Yea that sounds reputable..
Unknown weight Corbin old ammo
Unknown weight federal critical 40 old ammo
Unknown weight reloaded federal old ammo
180 gr web from a person who posted twice and was never heard from again. Maybe died from his injuries?:eek:

We know of 5 possible kabooms out of how many shield 40s sold? I'm willing to bet you have a 1000 shield 40 owners here on this forum. 5 out of 1000 is like 1/2 of 1%..of all guns going kaboom.

Buy a set of micrometers and measure your ammo before shooting if you are really concerned. If you have any that are shorter than the rest consider not firing it out of your shield.

I have estimated 14,000 reds of .40 fired in 3 years and haven't had a kaboom yet. I am knocking on wood as I type though.:D
 
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I have thought & thought about this & read almost every post on here about this topic... Iam going with a 40 shield for my summer time carry... I have a FS for winter time... But need something small for T-shirt weather :D LOVE IT!!!! So that being said I think I will just use 165 grain ammo in the shield & use 180 in my FS 40... Just a reminder about +P ammo in 40 S&W.... There is no such thing as .40S&W +p! Period. No exceptions. There is not a SAAMI specification for .40S&W loads beyond the standard pressure. Any company which sells ammunition loaded above the standard SAAMI specification is selling dangerous ammunition. There are no firearms rated to use such ammunition. If you are considering using .40S&W ammunition which is rated "+p" by the manufacturer, at the very least do yourself a favor and call the company to find out if they are (a) mislabeling their product for marketing purposes, (b) mislabeling their product because they do not know or understand SAAMI terminology, or (c) making out-of-spec ammunition.
CALIBERS -- Plus-P Facts...
 
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