Safety on Model 41 unintentionally keeps the gun from firing

[mikemyers]

I am trying to correct an annoying issue on an older S&W Model 41. It involves the safety.

With the safety OFF, while shooting the gun it's easy to let your hand rub against the safety, and the result is that it moves slightly upwards, and while the slide isn't locked (it doesn't move that far) it does move far enough so the gun won't fire. Instead you just feel a "click" as you pull the trigger.

In the image I posted, the larger pin in the middle is what the safety pivots on, and the "pawl" at the right is designed to fit into the slide, preventing it from moving. What does the "pin" at the left do?

Are there any good write-ups I can follow for adjusting these parts so they work properly?

 

[mikemyers]

Other than the "prong" fitting into the slide, and preventing it from moving, does anyone here know what else the safety on the 41 does, and how to adjust it?

 

[andyo5]

The safety on my 41 does not move easily. I have to make a deliberate effort and then it clicks from one position to the next. You may have a part missing. Possibly a spring.


Model 41 maintenance

 

[mikemyers]

Thanks. It's been this way for two years - it's annoying when I'm just shooting, and frustrating at a match.

The "right" (rear) part of the safety is fine - when the problem happens, the slide can still move back. It's the other end I'm concerned about - as in what does the safety do, to prevent the gun from firing? Does it somehow block the trigger from moving, like what the grip safety does on a 1911 ? That's what it "feels like" to me.

Maybe I can find a video for complete disassembly of the frame. Then maybe I can see how the parts work with each other.

 

[armorer951]

If you look under the grip panel, there is a screw that secures a metal pressure plate above the two small detents in the safety body as shown on the left end of the OP photo of the safety lever.
Some adjustment is available at the detent, by positioning the pressure plate in the desired position over the safety lever, and tightening the screw.

 

[mikemyers]

My gunsmith removed the grip, and tried to loosen the screw you mention. It was extremely tight. He took the gun to the back room where his shop and tools are, and did "something" with it. The next day it did the same thing once, after he worked on it, so I'm not sure that it's "fixed".

I never use that safety. I would prefer to disable it, or move it so far that nothing can lock up the gun. It's only a Bullseye gun. It never gets used for anything else.

I took the grip off that night after I tested it at the range, moved the safety lever as far down as it would go, and re-installed the grip. I'll find out at tomorrow's match if it's really fixed. I'm not all that confident about it, but at least now I know what is causing the problem.

Not sure which gun to use at the match tomorrow, the 41 or my High Standard. I used to have problems with my High Standard, but that turned out to be that someone put the magazine spring in incorrectly. Alan pointed that out, but I couldn't figure out how to disassemble the High Standard magazine until just a few days ago. IF (and that's a big IF), the 41 is now fixed, I feel more comfortable shooting it, but for reasons I don't understand, I'm a little more accurate with the High Standard.

Thanks for the suggestion. I have a feeling there is more to the safety than just locking the slide. I suspect it does something to the firing mechanism to block it, so the gun can't fire. My gut feeling is that's where the real problem is, but I don't want to start taking things apart that I don't understand.

 

[mikemyers]

Hey, you got me thinking about this - there is another possibility, the magazine disconnect. I found these images at:
Model 41 maintenance

Maybe THIS is where my issue is coming from.... Will check it out tomorrow evening. I think the safety might be connected to these parts??

 

[mikemyers]

Trying to make the image larger.....

The trigger bar is forced downwards by the magazine disconnector lever when a magazine in not installed. The magazine disconnector lever is spring loaded to push downwards. When the trigger bar is down the sear is disengaged, and the hammer cannot be released by an operator pulling the trigger.

The top (curved shark fin) portion of the trigger bar also has a disconnector function. When the slide is out of battery the fin is forced downward by the slide, this disconnects the sear and prevents the pistol from being discharged.

The trigger bar is forced upwards when a magazine is installed. The magazine disconnector lever is pushed upwards by the trigger bar return spring. When the trigger bar is up, the sear is now engaged by it and the hammer can be released by an operator pulling the trigger.

The top (curved shark fin) portion of the trigger bar is now aligned with the cut-out recess in the slide. When the slide is closed it's in battery, this allows the sear to be engaged by the trigger bar and the pistol can be discharged.


Hmm, maybe it's my four magazines, not the gun? Need to look inside, and understand how these parts work.

 

[leinster lad]

The large pin on the safety is the hammer pivot pin.

 

[mikemyers]

The large pin on the safety is the hammer pivot pin.

That's the pin in the middle. The pin I was asking about was at the "left" end in my photo.

Slowly this is starting to make sense to me. Slowly.

 

[leinster lad]

The pin on the left physically blocks the sear from releasing the hammer

 

[mikemyers]

The pin on the left physically blocks the sear from releasing the hammer

That leads me to the question of whether it is blocking the sear at the wrong time, when I *do* want to fire.

Maybe my magazines aren't pushing the parts up high enough?

I need to remove the grip, so I can watch what it's doing (or not doing).....

 

[JohnHL]

The pin on the left physically blocks the sear from releasing the hammer

I'm no expert on the Model 41, but it looks like it also pushes the trigger bar down and out of engagement with the sear.

John

 

[mikemyers]

I'm no expert on the Model 41, but it looks like it also pushes the trigger bar down and out of engagement with the sear.

John

I think that's what I would have said, if I knew more about what was going on. If that really is the problem, are those parts adjustable? I don't want it to push the trigger bar down and out of engagement with the sear quite so soon.

I think I said that right.....??

 

[armorer951]

If the hammer is falling, and there is no perceived mark on the casing, consider the position of the trigger overtravel screw. There must be enough overtravel provided in the trigger for the disconnector to reset, AND for the sear to move forward enough to be out of the way of the safety notch on the hammer when the trigger is fully to the rear.

 

[JohnHL]

I've never owned or serviced a Model 41 but if your hand is pushing up the safety, that will cause that "pin" to push down the trigger bar and the pistol won't fire.

I'm not aware of any adjustments, but the safety spring plate, retained by the safety spring plate screw (Numbers 27 and 28 on the numrich schematic) acts with the two detents on the safety lever to hold it in the on or off position.

If the screw is tight and the safety lever can be easily moved, I'd either try to bend (to tighten) the spring's pressure on the safety lever detents or replace it with a new one that has more stiffness.

If all those parts are working properly and your hand still pushes the safety lever up when shooting, then you'll need to modify your grip.

John

 

[handlebar]

I had the same problem with a 7" barreled model 41. It would click on at the most inopportune time, during a match and cause an alibi. I got so upset and I could not fix it, that I sold it. They may have had a bunch of parts that were out of spec.
Later I bought another with a 5" barrel and it is fine. Send it back to Smith/Wesson, I am sure they will repair it for you.
handlebar.

 

[mikemyers]

I'll be testing it tomorrow or Tuesday, to see if my gunsmith fixed it. Then I'll try to figure out what is going on, and then I'll probably take it back to my gunsmith, if we can identify the problem.

 

[leinster lad]

I'm no expert on the Model 41, but it looks like it also pushes the trigger bar down and out of engagement with the sear.

John

no it does not

Sorry guys, I stand corrected.

Had a look at my M41 just now and noticed that the "safety pin" (the thin one on the left of the pic) not only physically blocks the sear from releasing, but also pushes the trigger bar out of engagement with the sear.

Sorry for any confusion

 

[Aussie Collector]

The only reason I have seen causing the safety to come on was the model 41 was missing the safety spring plate... The fact your safety moves easily, as that's not normally the case, is your 41 spring plate is missing or damaged?