Sawed Off Shot Guns..

[JOERM]

I realize that they are unlawful in most if not all states and I totally understand why. But, I think that it was made law way back when...when there was not a hand gun that had that amount of power and still be conceallable, (sp). Bonnie and Clide days I'm guessing.

But in todays ways, it really is not a big deal in my opinion. They are bulky and not all that effective compaired to what's legal to purchase.

What about the 3" SW-500? And what about the Taruas Judge which is a .410 sawed off shot gun that is only 6" long? A sawed off .410 shot gun found in your rig will put ya in jail for a some time.

My old neighbor had a .410 pistol single shot he used to pop his cows off with but he used a slug.

I know the law will not change but I think it is an out dated deal. Any half dumb bad guy would rather shy away from using one and use a high powered hand gun instead. At least that would keep him out of jail for maybe a few years less.

Maybe some LEO could put some modern light on the subject.

BTW, I am not saying that sawed off shot guns should be legalize.

Joe

 

[bubbiesdad]

Actually, you can legally own a sawed off shotgun. All it takes is a stamp from the ATF. Similar to one you would get for a Class III weapon.

 

[Andy Griffith]

Well, you can "saw" one off to a shade over 18," and that's pretty darn short. Anything shorter, to me, just isn't practical on the premise that it's just hard to hang on to with a load of any merit.

If the law was changed, I could see some redneck trimming back a H&R 12ga with a 3 1/2" chamber, installing a pistol grip, throwing in a 2 1/4 oz. turkey load and yelling "hey, watch this!"

I could see the picture now of some gentleman with a concave purple strip stretching from his lower jaw to the top of his forehead, with his left hand "glued" to what was left of a forearm that split when the recoil jerked the escutcheon from the grip!

 

[10-12]

Hi Joe,

There are two major reasons a thug wants a gun, assassination and intimidation. A single barrel .410 and a hacksaw blade are far cheaper and less bulky than an S&W – 500. Especially since it is usually wise to ditch the weapon after the crime. I do agree the law is ridiculous. Better we just make it illegal to shoot people than attempt to outlaw an inanimate object. Oops, we have already done that and we all know how well that works. If the thug won't abbey the law about not shooting people, he won't abbey the law about not sawing off the barrel on a shotgun.

Just my opinion.

Bill

 

[DeathGrip]

The judge has a rifled barrel thus it's a handgun.

 

[H.P. Kid]

Originally posted by H.P. Kid:
Here in California a Citizen cannot purchase or posses a short barrel shotgun ( -18" / 26" overall). There is a permit process for the movie industry and class 3 dealers for sales samples. Of course L.E. agencies are not regulated beyond the normal A.T.F. process during purchase or modification. In California the Taurus Judge and The TC Contender in .410 and the 45 Clt-.410 derringers are considered "Short Barrel" shotguns and are a felony to possess. There is no logic in the reasoning behind these weapons being illigal here.

 

[Jerry in SC]

Several convert regular shotguns to AOW. The transfer tax is only $5. The paperwork takes about 90 days and requires an FBI check, not a big deal.

http://www.serbu.com/top/superShorty.php

 

[conn ak]

When I bought my Mossberg 500 ($189) "Camper Combo" in the late 80's, you got the regular, choked barrel and an 18" smooth bore barrel to compliment the included pistol grip. I threw the pistol grip somewhere in the basement after shooting a box of 12 gauge slugs.

 

[therevjay]

Shotguns with Bbl.s shorter then 18" are legal if they are muzzleloaders. (fed. law) Don't know about various states.

 

[2152hq]

They are legal in most states, as long as they are registered with the Feds as an NFA (National Firearms Act)weapon. Payment of the transfer tax, and the proper paperwork, background check and some of your cash will put one in your hands.

A handful of states do not allow the citizens of those states to possess 'short barreled shotguns' or 'short barreled rifles'. The shotgun (smoothbore weapon) must have barrel(s) at least 18" long and OAL at least 26" to keep it out of that registered NFA catagory. Anything under either of those minimums makes it an NFA weapon and it needs to be registered to be legal.

A few states I believe have their own barrel length minimums that are longer than the Fed and must be adhered to when inside those boundarys.
The 'Judge' revolver is rifled so it is not considered a 'shotgun' even though it chambers the 410 shotshell.
Same as the T/C Contender in 45 Colt/410 though there was a lawsuit by the BATF once that took it off the market in that configuration because they deemed it a short barreled shotgun. But the BATF lost the lawsuit and the gun went back onto the market. Don't know if they stil make that one or not. Had a screw on choke w/ straight rifleing to minimize the spin to the shot pattern.



The other catagory that smoothbore handguns can fall into is AOW,,Any Other Weapon. Another NFA catagory requireing the gun to be registered with the BATFE and a transfer tax paid when sold,,though I think the AOW tax is only $5 where the SBS and SBR transfer tax is $200. I may have that wrong though.
And yes, all this registration and tax came about as a result of the 'gangster era' and our politicians passing laws to help keep us helpless citzens safe.

 

[DeathGrip]

Jerry in SC,That is on sick puppy!Some how I'm thinking about finances now.Shh the wifes coming

 

[em-man]

If the law was changed, I could see some redneck trimming back a H&R 12ga with a 3 1/2" chamber, installing a pistol grip, throwing in a 2 1/4 oz. turkey load and yelling "hey, watch this!"


I could see the picture now of some gentleman with a concave purple strip stretching from his lower jaw to the top of his forehead, with his left hand "glued" to what was left of a forearm that split when the recoil jerked the escutcheon from the grip!

It's really not that bad. The recoil splits the web of your hand after a few shots...

 

[Jeb Stonewall]

Originally posted by Andy Griffith:

If the law was changed, I could see some redneck trimming back a H&R 12ga with a 3 1/2" chamber, installing a pistol grip, throwing in a 2 1/4 oz. turkey load and yelling "hey, watch this!"

I could see the picture now of some gentleman with a concave purple strip stretching from his lower jaw to the top of his forehead, with his left hand "glued" to what was left of a forearm that split when the recoil jerked the escutcheon from the grip!

AHH?
That would be me!
Back in my younger and dumber days (16)
I got hold of a stevens 12ga. single shot that had split the barrel from the muzzle down about 3"
I cut the stock off at the end of the bolt that holds it on. Then cut the barrel down to a nice 12"
((BTW- There was another bad ass (idiot) in the neighborhood that did the same thing a few years before me.
He fired his with one hand with no more of an injury than a sore wrist and a bloody crease running from the bridge of his nose to his hairline.))

So when it came time to test my creation no one was willing to touch a round off remembering the out come of the other badass(idiot)
So one night I took the gun in BOTH hands and holding it at my hip I yanked the trigger.

KABOOM!!!
The recoil jerked the muzzle up to where the gun barrel was level with my eyes.
The neighbors across the street( I was standing in the street in front of the house) jerked their drapes back to see what just happened.
I looked in their driveway and noticed that the windshield on their van was shattered!!!
I dropped the gun down to my side and boot legged it back to my buddys garage.
Turned out that the van window was just covered with beads of rain and wasn't hit by any shot(whew)

After that no one was interested in shooting it anymore and it ended up being tossed in the trunk of a buddys car and scrapped with the car a while later.

 

[normamag]

my pick factory 20

 

[K-Mart85]

I got an old off brand sears catalog pump action 12 from my grandfather ( I poured the concrete for his patio and I got a 40 year old gun that was a dust collector) In Wisconsin a sawed off has to have an 18 inch barrel so I sawed it down and replaced the split chipped, loose stock with a pistold grip/full stock combo and its become my favorite house gun/ home defense piece. Its reliable and rock steady.

But a funny story from my father, he was at a flea market and saw a guy selling a sawed off double barrel 12 with the stock cut down ala Mad Max style.The guy talked big and told my dad he could shoot it one handed. One 12 gauge buckshot shell and a broken wristed vendor later my dad save his cash and tells that story whenever sawed offs are brought up.

 

[GatorFarmer]

The National Firearms Act (NFA)was passed back in 1934. That's the law that regulated "sawed off" shotguns. Basically, if you want to make one, you fill out a form, do some paperwork and pay 200 dollars. Same to fee to buy one that someone else made. If the gun never had a stock attached and was a virgin receiver, then chances are it will be an AOW and you still do paperwork, but pay a five dollar tax. Unless you build the AOW yourself, then it is still 200 dollars.

Anyway, 14" or shorter 12 gauges are somewhat popular. Sometimes called "entry guns", they're also increasingly seen in general LE use because patrol cars have gotten smaller.

You lose velocity and they kick quite a bit, but I suppose are useful up close or for things like blowing off locks when breaching.

The Taurus Judge and various other .45/.410 handguns are basically at their best for killing snakes and perhaps large spiders.

Anyway, laws against "sawed off shotguns", and probably machine guns for that matter, were the AWB type hysteria of their time. The media hyped their use by criminal and unsavory elements and big brother didn't like folks having them. Same old same old.

Similar hysteria led to laws against switchblades - the new demon weapon - back in the 50's to keep them out of the hands of delinquents.

I suppose if someone had a lot of time and money on their hands, they could try to challenge these laws as violating the 2A. The old Miller case did mention weapons being used by the military as a possible test after all, and the Army does issue both switch blades and short barreled shotguns these days.

 

[2152hq]

Originally posted by normamag:
my pick factory 20

The Sheriffs Office I worked for had 2 of those that they were selling at the time I was there. We got to take them out to the range and put a few rounds through them just to say we had done so. With some loads you would consider usable in a serious situation, those A&B guns were anything but comfortable to shoot. But they sure looked cool!

What we put through them that day was much more than the Flues model frame they were built on was made to handle I learned later in life.

The name escapes me now, but they went to a very well known dealer in NFA weapons in NM. This was in the very early 70's. Sold the Thompsons (4) too but we made sure the ammo was allll goooone

Wonder where those guns are today.

 

[Jellybean]

This is an 870 Police Magnum with a 12" barrel. Shotshells use a fairly slow burning powder and isn't very good for use in shorter barrels, recoil with this one is very tolerable and can be shot with one hand due to it's weight. But penetration suffers also compared to a longer barrel.

 

[moosedog]

I think they are dangerous and should be outlawed.

Here's my 14 year old son with a Remington 870. I told him we were going bird hunting, I don't think he believes me.

Actually, Dad prefer's something like an original Parker Coachgun in 10 gauge.

 

[jkc]

A gun-savvy buddy, who should have known better, recently bought a Taurus "Judge" and was predictably very disappointed with it. The .410 slugs are tiny and impotent, he said the patterns thrown by shotshells had holes big enough to walk through --n not even useful against snakes. He asked my advice as to its disposition, and I advised putting it on consignment at our local gunshop.

I've always fancied owning an Ithaca Auto & Burglar, but can't justify the lack of mission and expense...