SBR reviews. Please weigh in!
- Thread starter pmbspyder
- Start date
Majorlk
Member
Majorlk
Member
I just returned from a couple of hours at the range testing my new SBR. I used 5 10-round (short) mags, 1 25-round (converted from 10-round long) and 10 25-round magazines.
I used each magazine five times, with 5 rounds in each magazine each time. Total rounds fired was a little over 600 rounds. I went through the 10-rounders first and then the 25s.
There were no problems through the first 10 magazines. The next 10 had a 50 percent failure rate and the rest a 100 percent failure rate. It should be noted that in every instance of a failure of the bolt to lock, manually pulling the charging handle, with the empty mag still in the well, locked the bolt.
My conclusion is that as the bolt latch/upper mating surfaces got dirty the drag was sufficient to prevent the latch from moving properly. Unfortunately, I forgot to take some CLP with me to test out this theory. Also, I should note that I only occasionally experienced a bolt hold-back problem before - maybe one every dozen or so magazines, and not on any predictable basis. I have not modified the bolt release spring.
I mentioned earlier the closeness of the SBR lever and the extended mag release and the potential of hitting the lever during a quick mag change. I did two dozen fast mag changes and hot the lever the first half-dozen times. After that my finger "remembered" where everything was and I had no further problem in that regard.
I used each magazine five times, with 5 rounds in each magazine each time. Total rounds fired was a little over 600 rounds. I went through the 10-rounders first and then the 25s.
There were no problems through the first 10 magazines. The next 10 had a 50 percent failure rate and the rest a 100 percent failure rate. It should be noted that in every instance of a failure of the bolt to lock, manually pulling the charging handle, with the empty mag still in the well, locked the bolt.
My conclusion is that as the bolt latch/upper mating surfaces got dirty the drag was sufficient to prevent the latch from moving properly. Unfortunately, I forgot to take some CLP with me to test out this theory. Also, I should note that I only occasionally experienced a bolt hold-back problem before - maybe one every dozen or so magazines, and not on any predictable basis. I have not modified the bolt release spring.
I mentioned earlier the closeness of the SBR lever and the extended mag release and the potential of hitting the lever during a quick mag change. I did two dozen fast mag changes and hot the lever the first half-dozen times. After that my finger "remembered" where everything was and I had no further problem in that regard.
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Majorlk
Member
Addendum to my previous post ...
I like the SBR lever, even with it's birthing problems! If the hold-open problem never gets fixed (which I am sure it will be!) it is much more convenient that the original bolt release.
I would still love to see posts from those who have modified the original BAD lever for their 15-22s and what problems, if any, they have had with failures to lock. I can't believe they are not having the same problems, considering that the MagPul lever is bigger and heavier than Paul's is.
I like the SBR lever, even with it's birthing problems! If the hold-open problem never gets fixed (which I am sure it will be!) it is much more convenient that the original bolt release.
I would still love to see posts from those who have modified the original BAD lever for their 15-22s and what problems, if any, they have had with failures to lock. I can't believe they are not having the same problems, considering that the MagPul lever is bigger and heavier than Paul's is.
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PapaChop
US Veteran
Same here, for sure.
Majorlk
Member
Another range session this morning, this time with my grandson.
After the last session, I cleaned the bolt latch assembly and lubed it with a couple of drops of CLP.
Zero problems with five 10-round short magazines; 100 percent lock back on all five. The 25-rounders had about 60 percent failures to lock back the bolt. We shot another 400 rounds today.
I am going to disassemble the magazines and give them and the followers all a good bath. Before re-assembly, I am going to try stretching the springs somewhat to see if that makes any difference, although the bolt manually locks back on an empty mag every time. I am also going to do the bolt holdback spring mod, as well.
As they say in the news industry, - no 30 -
After the last session, I cleaned the bolt latch assembly and lubed it with a couple of drops of CLP.
Zero problems with five 10-round short magazines; 100 percent lock back on all five. The 25-rounders had about 60 percent failures to lock back the bolt. We shot another 400 rounds today.
I am going to disassemble the magazines and give them and the followers all a good bath. Before re-assembly, I am going to try stretching the springs somewhat to see if that makes any difference, although the bolt manually locks back on an empty mag every time. I am also going to do the bolt holdback spring mod, as well.
As they say in the news industry, - no 30 -
Majorlk
Member
Even with the problems I like it. When the bolt doesn't lock back on the last shot, a quick pull of the charging handle locks it. This would be a major problem for match shooters, but not for my shooting.
I like having the bolt release at my trigger finger tip.
Majorlk
Member
There hasn't been anything from Paul in the last couple of weeks - no replies to email, either.
I am not convinced that the problem is with the lever, but rather with the factory bolt release. I still haven't had a chance to clip a coil or two off the bolt release spring.
We have a version 2 they are off to The Anodizer right now.
We have it down to 4.2 grams that is the best it can be.
The problem is in the gun.. As I have mentioned before there are posts on here with people having last shot hold open issues stock. We have done the best we can with it and at this point it is a huge loss. There really is not the interest in this part that we hoped for. But we still went ahead and did a version 2 which is a whole new machine program. I'm still waiting for those that bent a bad lever to chime in No one has because I'm certain they had the same problem. The new one with less weight will be good for those that are having trouble. Cleaning the gun real good is going to be important. Also if you want to use this you may have to clip the bolt catch spring and Stretch magazine springs. This is just what you need to do for it to work.
Hope all is well with everybody.
We have it down to 4.2 grams that is the best it can be.
The problem is in the gun.. As I have mentioned before there are posts on here with people having last shot hold open issues stock. We have done the best we can with it and at this point it is a huge loss. There really is not the interest in this part that we hoped for. But we still went ahead and did a version 2 which is a whole new machine program. I'm still waiting for those that bent a bad lever to chime in No one has because I'm certain they had the same problem. The new one with less weight will be good for those that are having trouble. Cleaning the gun real good is going to be important. Also if you want to use this you may have to clip the bolt catch spring and Stretch magazine springs. This is just what you need to do for it to work.
Hope all is well with everybody.
Majorlk
Member
Thanks for the update, Paul. I was going to do some more testing today, but plans got changed. Hopefully, I'll get a chance to clip the spring and do some more testing on Thursday. Gotta close the pool tomorrow - the water temp just went below 70 degrees. 
How do you want to handle a swap for the lighter one?
How do you want to handle a swap for the lighter one?
i returned my original version and told paul i will await the version 2 to try it out. im really hoping it works out as id like to keep it on there. if not, then ill just take a refund. this hasnt changed my view of ndz at all, they've done what they can to try and help.
Majorlk
Member
I went back to the range this afternoon for some more testing, even though I haven't had a chance to mess with the bolt release spring.
Three tries with each of five 10-round short magazines - 100 percent lock back.
Three tries with each of 11 25-round magazines - 29 failures in 33 tries.
The springs in the short magazines are 75 percent as long as the ones in the long magazines, despite the magazines themselves being less than half as long. Conclusion - more force applied to the follower in the short magazines. Stretching the springs in the long magazines had no noticeable effect.
Again, pulling the charging handle back on an empty mag resulted in 100 percent lock back.
Three tries with each of five 10-round short magazines - 100 percent lock back.
Three tries with each of 11 25-round magazines - 29 failures in 33 tries.
The springs in the short magazines are 75 percent as long as the ones in the long magazines, despite the magazines themselves being less than half as long. Conclusion - more force applied to the follower in the short magazines. Stretching the springs in the long magazines had no noticeable effect.
Again, pulling the charging handle back on an empty mag resulted in 100 percent lock back.
so using some napkin math:
shorts mags have about 150% the force of long mags
version 2 SBR is about 50% the weight of the first version
long mags should have about 200% the force with version 2
version 2 should work...just have to wait and find out.
shorts mags have about 150% the force of long mags
version 2 SBR is about 50% the weight of the first version
long mags should have about 200% the force with version 2
version 2 should work...just have to wait and find out.
Majorlk
Member
I just finished loading all the mags, and the force necessary to pull down the follower on the short mags is considerably more than on the long ones.
I am only about 20 minutes or so from NDZ, so I am going to see if I can just run over there and swap levers.
I am only about 20 minutes or so from NDZ, so I am going to see if I can just run over there and swap levers.
skeeter7
Member
I've been lurking and reading the updates on this thread for a while now. I am also interested in seeing if the second version will do the trick. I was all for buying the first one, but when I saw problems being reported with it, I kind of just held off waiting for any bugs to be worked out. Once someone gets the second version, please report your experience with it. If all is well, I will also go ahead and purchase one.
mr2r6
Member
I have the Magpul level bent to fit my 15-22 and it works great. I had issues with the mag release button hitting the level when pushing the button but after another bend that was fixed. The lever works great with the S&W 25 rounds and mag pro mags 32 rounds. I have the plinker and the plinker does not hold the bolt back but I think its the Plinker mag a fault. Here is the only video I have using the bad lever. I will take a better video next range trip.
M&P 15-22 Shooting Steel - YouTube
M&P 15-22 Shooting Steel - YouTube
