SBR reviews. Please weigh in!

Majorlk said:
DUH!!! It helps to actually look instead of depending upon my faulty memory! :D I said I was old!!!
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no worries. i knew i installed it easily but when you asked, i had to double check ha. luckily i had it out to install beltfed's extended charging handle latch.
 
CrazyFingers said:
Well gosh...



Sounds like I was bang on...:rolleyes:
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what exactly have you contributed to this thread besides pointing out things that have already been stated and riding on the coat tails of others who criticized this product? :confused:
 
Look guys, I was the first one to knock this thing and hijack the thread. I apologize because some of you are simply trying to work out your issues with the product. I understand that. I’m out.
 
Woady, I was not aware that you were the arbiter of what is and is not acceptable speech on this forum.

In fact, you are not.

The point of my comments, since you seem to have completely missed it, is that this SBR device is of debatable utility and questionable craftsmanship. The device, by your own admission, introduces malfunctions into a previously reliable rifle, the cure for which in my opinion (and again, by your own admission) is to cease its use.
Apparently these facts make you uncomfortable. However, I think it quite telling that your response to this discomfort is to attack factual comments that do not violate any usage agreements for this discussion forum.
I agree that this thread has run its course. However, do not expect me or any other member of this forum to censor ourselves just because our opinions might not fit with your particular view.
Obviously, if a forum moderator feels I have overstepped my bounds they are free to make that clear.
 
you're hopeless. no one has debated the fact that it has issues. we're simply trying to get them corrected while you carry on and on like the company should be dissolved and banished.
 
Ok guys, got my sbr back today, and it seems much improved. It looks like it clears the lower now that it has been milled a bit. I couldn't fire it (and won't be able to until next week) but I locked it open, slammed some mags home, bumped it around, etc and the bolt stayed open. Promising sign! I will update again when I hit the range next week. Thanks Paul!
 
good news. i emailed them this weekend and have yet to hear back...
 
CrazyFingers said:
Woady, I was not aware that you were the arbiter of what is and is not acceptable speech on this forum.

In fact, you are not.

The point of my comments, since you seem to have completely missed it, is that this SBR device is of debatable utility and questionable craftsmanship. The device, by your own admission, introduces malfunctions into a previously reliable rifle, the cure for which in my opinion (and again, by your own admission) is to cease its use.
Apparently these facts make you uncomfortable. However, I think it quite telling that your response to this discomfort is to attack factual comments that do not violate any usage agreements for this discussion forum.
I agree that this thread has run its course. However, do not expect me or any other member of this forum to censor ourselves just because our opinions might not fit with your particular view.
Obviously, if a forum moderator feels I have overstepped my bounds they are free to make that clear.
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Dude, you've got no dog in this fight. You don't want to buy the product, don't do it. Too easy. The problems being displayed are NOT universal, and so your initial statements are already shot. Are you gonna start railing against any of the other aftermarket products that can introduce malfunctions? (1911 magazines come to mind...)

The BAD-type devices are a huge advantage to those of us that get paid to do violent things (as well as competitive shooters). Many 15-22 owners use it as a way to train for much less money. Many of those same people have a BAD-type device on the weapon they may have to use in the line of duty.

Try clearing a double-feed in the prone with out a BAD lever. Than try it with one.
 
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Papachop, your right on the money..... But, many on this forum may not have the experience or ability to use the AR platform to it's fullest like some of us. Civilians enjoy it, lets say, differently. But posting the information can help if they are open to learning. The most they may get to do is punch paper or maybe hunt, both do not require some of the upgrades that have been designed to speed up loading and cycling of jams on the AR. Give them time, they'll come around..

I'll be testing my SBR this Friday, good to hear some of the guys have had their SBR working now... It's a fine addiction to my AR line of weapon and on my M&P, as you stated, saves me tons of dollars on the ammo. Keepem in the Xring...
 
Wow, very well said. A voice of reason I'm sure no one can argue with!

My 15-22 is my "fun gun". I defend my home with other weapons (purposely not specified). As a civilian, I have sought out, paid for, and been professionally trained with those to the best of my ability so far. Training is a forever ongoing process, beware the expert, humility is a virtue.

I also have many years of emergency response experience. I wasn't there to shoot, I patched the holes. Hence my desire to learn more!
 
thanks for clearing that up guys.

i still havent heard from them so i guess my next move is to call.
 
Finally we can Post

Hello Everyone, this is Paul from NDZ Performance. I’m sorry I could not get on here sooner we just created our account and had to wait for approval before posting.
We just got approval to post today at 7:01 AM.

We are currently looking into the issues that are coming up with the SBR.
Let me first say that we stand behind our products 100% and they all have a Lifetime Warranty against Material and/or Manufacturing Defects.

We will get the issue resolved regardless.

At this time let us address all problems the best we can.

We would like to clarify that a stock gun without our SBR installed can have the tendency to release the bolt if you bump the gun or Slam a magazine home. We have tried it numerous times on two different guns with the same result.

We took the spring out of one of our magazines so the follower would not engage the Bolt Catch and slammed the magazine home without the SBR and it will release the bolt almost every time. The weight of our current SBR is 8 Grams the same as a Bad lever.
The added weight of the SBR might make this happen slightly easier but this is still an issue regardless if you have an SBR installed or not.

Has anyone that bent and installed a Bad lever experienced any of the related problems?

The Last round Hold open Problem Could be related to:
1: weakened Magazine Springs from really used magazines. We have 4 magazines here for our gun and tried them all with no issues. This gun has had about 2000 rounds through it.
2: The surface contact between the bolt and the bolt catch is a wearable surface contact area. Worn surface areas can cause the bolt catch mechanism to be more easily activated.

3: After further investigating this morning we have noticed that our SBR can come in contact with the body reducing the travel by .010-.015. This may have an effect on the hold open depending on the Contact surface area of the Bolt and Bolt Catch.

Just to be safe we have already modified that area on one here for testing to fix that, and this modification will be added to all the new SBR’s in production. Any one with our current SBR that is experiencing this issue Please call us 203-439-7784 so we can modify your current SBR or replace it.

Someone mentioned about the Play in the SBR there really is no play in the SBR. The play is actually in the Bolt Catch but by adding the SBR it makes it more evident which might lead someone to think there is play in the SBR. If you take the SBR off, and just look at the Bolt Catch, all the play will still be there.



To sum it up:

Weight may have an effect on the last shot bolt open (we will address this in future runs)
Worn bolt and bolt catch
Weak mag springs
Body to SBR lever clearance (we made the modification)

So here is the deal. Please don’t worry we stand behind all our products and will take care of this the best we can. As soon as we get any more information I will update and post on here. In the meantime any feedback from you guys will be greatly appreciated.

I can be reached via Email at [email protected]
Or you can call me at 203-439-7784 M-F 8-4 EST

UPDATE as of 7-12-12

Ok So I wrote this a week ago and I went again to the range yesterday. I have to say we are a bit puzzled because the problem seems to be with only some of the SBR’s not all.
If it was with all it may have been easier to identify and fix.

I tested my gun with some different mags from a friend and I did experience some failure on last shot hold open. Some mags fair better than others. So it seems to be a combination of things mostly it is the Mag springs have different spring tension tolerances.
I used some Allen wrenches and rigged my mag springs so they had more pressure and it held open every time.

Were we stand now is It has to be a weight issue combined with the spring tension.
So we are in the process of making it lighter we have removed 2 grams now and as soon as I can I will get to the range hopefully Today or Tomorrow and run some new testing.

We thank you all for being patient and am sorry for any inconvenience this may have caused.

We will keep you updated and like I said before We stand behind all of our products.
Feel free to contact me through email. Or by phone or on here and we will get you takend care of.

Special Thanks for the support from PMBSPYDER, w0ady, PapaChop, Aceman58,
PHXSHOTER, Juvicator, and Kayback and anyone else I may have missed.
 
Aceman58 said:
Papachop, your right on the money..... But, many on this forum may not have the experience or ability to use the AR platform to it's fullest like some of us. Civilians enjoy it, lets say, differently.
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Well, the "M&P" does stand for "Military & Police". ;)
 
i talked to paul this afternoon on the phone and was just coming here to post an update but i see he's beat me to it. both my mags failed to hold open and i just received 2 new mags however ive already removed the SBR. after talking to him, my next step will be sending it back to NDZ and they will replace it when they have an improved model. paul was very friendly and informative so im willing to wait and try the replacement whenever it comes. this is just a fun add-on for me so i dont mind going without it for now.
 
Thanks for weighing in here Paul. I'm gonna run the one you sent back to me next week and I'll let you know how it fairs.
 
Update: Completed my testing with my SBR today, ran 475 rounds thru my M&P 15/22 with ZERO issue on the SBR. Again check your install and make sure it is installed correctly on the paddle of the stock bolt latch by pressing them together with a (taped nose pliers). You may not think that is much but remember I'm in Cali with 4 shorty 10 round mags, and 4 10/30 long mags, so you do the thumb math on reloading.. My thumb looks like a clones nose..

I even gave my M&P to my female Sgt. (who never fired an AR with a BAD or SBR) I gave her the basic "How to use the SBR", watched to see if she could make it fail, bottom line, she loved it and now wants one. I saw Paul's post and it's nice to see support for your product.

I'm a happy camper, we trained today using the M&P and it only had one FTL, using Federal 525 (wanted to use this ammo up). Ran some CCI Tactical and it never hiccuped, never... The product rocks. Good luck to all the others with issues, I will be looking weekly at NDZ for more great products in the future.. Thanks, keepen in the X ring..
 
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Hey guys, any update on the SBR issues. I hope you all got it cleared up. As stated, I really enjoy this addiction to my M&P 15/22. I'm sad now because I really don't have any updates to add on to my M&P, this is a bad thing for now I am thinking of purchasing a new AR in the .300 Blackout bullet (check it out, an AR with a 7.62 bullet yea).
 
Aceman58 said:
Hey guys, any update on the SBR issues. I hope you all got it cleared up. As stated, I really enjoy this addiction to my M&P 15/22. I'm sad now because I really don't have any updates to add on to my M&P, this is a bad thing for now I am thinking of purchasing a new AR in the .300 Blackout bullet (check it out, an AR with a 7.62 bullet yea).
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That thing has virtually no shoulder - and I thought a 7mm TCU (.223 necked up to 7mm) was bad. :)
 
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