Scale checking reloads

[M29since14]

We don't know enough about this man's ammo to really say much but what others have said about weighing not being a reliable method to find an overcharge is true, in general. Nevertheless, any scrutiny of the ammo is better than none.

I agree with the poster who said if you are "spooked" to either tear the ammo down for components or otherwise dispose of it. If something is giving you the creeps, better take note of it and act accordingly. Your eyes and fingers are too precious to ignore your instincts on something like this.

 

[buck460XVR]

What is considered a "seemingly reputable source"? Your best friend that you know is a diligent reloader, a private company that reloads commercially or some guy your wife works with?

Everyone here says they shoot their own reloads....does anyone here not trust their reloading procedures enough to allow others to shoot them? If you bought 100 rounds from him, he should have a license to produce ammo and thus insurance. If he doesn't and still sold you ammo, and you don't know him well enough to trust him, then throw 'em. More folks blow up guns with their own reloads than with reloads from others.

 

[Rule3]

Rule 3, the statement was that there was no way to tell if a round was overloaded by weighing it. I simply said that if due diligence was paid to the loads, by segregating brass, bullets, etc., and paying attention to powder charge, the loads could be quite similar in weight. If the OP bought handloads without accompanying load data, that is another issue entirely.

I stand by that statement. IF everything I said was done, any load that weighed over two grains off could be discarded and no harm be done.

Weigh some of yours... if you are a halfway skilled handloader, you will find the same thing I just talked about.

But maybe I take more pride in my handloads than you do.

There is no need for this "snarky" comment. I was not rude to you

I have weighed loaded rounds and I stand by my statement above. Please take your attitude elsewhere.

 

[SMSgt]

I've reloaded since 1975, never had a squib nor overcharge, and only two duds from the same pack of primers. I've tried weighing reloads and it just doesn't work out with the variances in case and bullet weights.

If it works for someone else, fine--but all it proved to me is no two rounds are identical.

 

[rwsmith]

It ain't worth it.

I agree with rule3 that weighing loaded cartridges is a very poor way of comparing the charge weights within. If Bullseye were used at 3.2 grains, the 6.4 grains would be a double charge weighing 3.2 grains more. Bullets and cases can vary more than that.

I got what was called 'factory reloads' many years ago and after shooting them decided I was either going to shoot new ammo or my own reloads. No more iffy relooads.

 

[Domino300]

With all due respect to those who replied to the OP, I beg to differ. With due diligence to cases, projectile weights, and powder charges, weight variation in loaded rounds can be held to less than a grain. I know, because I have done it repeatedly. The first time I weighed my assembled handloads it was done more for curiosity than anything else; I have since done it several times, and most of the time weight variation was less than two grains, and often less than half a grain.

I will agree that weighing assembled loads may not be the absolute best way to determine an over-charge, but it can be done to give an indication, especially in the larger handgun rounds with fairly heavy powder charges.

I think the key here is in Red above. With big bore handguns, a double charge or squib can be detected as the loads can be 16 gn. plus and thus detected. Not so with 45 auto. 9mm etc.. OP hasn't indicated the cal.

 

[H Richard]

Just don't buy handloads from anyone you don't personally know and trust your life to. If you want to save money on loads, get and read a reloading manual, then decide if you want to invest in reloading your self. If not get recommendations from shooting buddies of a "trusted" commercial reloader.

 

[Jellybean]

I just bought some reloads from a seemingly reputable source. Will a quality scale be able to detect a difference ( possible overcharge) in the reloaded ammo?

By simply weighing the whole cartridge? No. There are too many variables involved, not only with the other components, (ie, bullet, case and primer), but also with other things that can add weight, (ie, carbon fouling in the case, primer residue in the pockets, bullet lube if lead bullets were used and etc.) It's more than likely that your "source" is using a progressive press and the chances are very high that he's not prepping his cases very well, let alone trying to keep his ammo within a certain weight allowance.

If they are all the same I should be OK....

Even if he did load them all careful enough to get them close enough in weight to show a difference, there is no guarantee that he didn't make a mistake in powder choice or charge weight. His reputation might be built on making the "hotter" loads everyone thinks they need now and he might be purposely exceeding safe pressure limits to get there. Also, the main rules in reloading are that what is safe in one gun, may not be safe in another, and just because it's printed in a manual doesn't mean it's safe to shoot in every gun.

Then there is the question of which powder was used. A little extra of a slow burning powder will jack the pressure up a bit. However the same amount "extra" of a fast burning powder can blow the gun to pieces.

So, while a quality scale will tell you something, it won't be all that you need to know.

 

[Jellybean]

Everyone here says they shoot their own reloads....does anyone here not trust their reloading procedures enough to allow others to shoot them?

I do, and have loaded everything from high quality match grade ammo to range fodder for people I know. Notice I said to "people I know" because the more you produce for other people, the less time you have for your own reloading and shooting.

If you bought 100 rounds from him, he should have a license to produce ammo and thus insurance...

Actually this isn't true. The mere fact that he sell reloads doesn't require him to possess an ammo manufacturers license. I don't think the license requires the holder to have insurance, but I'm not sure, especially under the current administration, where the truth is apt to change without prior notification.

... More folks blow up guns with their own reloads than with reloads from others.

That is probably true, but I'm still careful about whose ammo I shoot. My best friend and shooting buddy passed away recently, now I can start to break down the several thousand rounds of .223 he loaded for me for our trips to Wyoming several years ago. I'm not worried about them blowing my guns up, but they are hot enough to concern me about continued use of them. There are guys I know that I trust with no problem. There are guys that I know that I don't trust at all. Anyone I don't know falls into the second group, because of the guys that I do know that are in there too.

 

[JBnTx]

If you find a weight difference between rounds that you've weighed, how do you tell if that difference is caused by the powder charge, the bullet weight or the case weight?

Or a combination of all three?

 

[Doubless]

Your points might have some validity if these were personally assembled hand loads. WE DON'T KNOW THAT THEY WEREN'T, DO WE?

Do you understand that we are discussing reloads that were purchased? Or did you fail to read the initial post completely? I FULLY UNDERSTAND THAT. THE OP STATED THEY WERE PURCHASED. I READ JUST FINE...

So please explain to the Forum how it is possible to control case manufacturer, sort projectile weight and pay attention to the powder charge when someone other than yourself produced the ammunition in question. I BELIEVE IT GOES WITHOUT SAYING THAT IF YOU ARE SELLING HANDLOADS YOU SORT BY CASE MANUFACTURER. PROJECTILE WEIGHTS ARE TYPICALLY REASONABLY CLOSE; MY OWN CAST FROM HENSLEY AND GIBBS SELDOM EXCEED A FULL GRAIN IN WEIGHT, AND THAT IS FROM EIGHT AND TEN CAVITY MOULDS, IF I DO MY PART

Weighing purchased reloads is a waste of time. Buying a scale to weigh purchased reloads is a waste of money.

You are wrong on this issue.

YOU HAVE YOUR BELIEFS, I HAVE MINE. ALL I WILL SAY ON THIS ISSUE IS THAT ANYONE WHO SELLS HANDLOADS HAD BEST BE PAYING ATTENTION TO WHAT HE IS DOING, AND THAT MEANS SORTING CASES, BEING DARNED SURE OF POWDER CHARGES, AND BEING ALMOST ANAL WHEN IT COMES TO PROJECTILE WEIGHTS.

The OP doesn't state where the handloads came from. It is possible they were machine loaded, which lessens the potential for error so long as the machine is being monitored.

There is a post after my last one where someone took factory rounds and weighed them, getting slightly over two grains of variation. All that did is lend credibility to my original statement, as I see it.

I meant nothing personal in anything I posted, but I am just like anyone else: I don't like to be told that I am wrong, or my posts are irrelevant. I have been casting and loading since 1980 and although I don't know it all by a long shot, I know what I know. I don't talk about things I haven't experienced myself or seen. I am just not that way.

Rule 3, my apologies. I meant nothing personal, but I have no idea how long you have been handloading or what your techniques are or how careful you are. I once knew a guy that talked about "drinking a few beers and cranking them out on the 550". Not being accusatory but there are those out there, and I don't know you from Adam. Thus my statement; again, I apologize.

In short, I know what I know, and brass and projectiles are darned close nowadays. The variable is typically the powder. That is all I was saying, and my original post was that weighing was not the best, but it would work under certain circumstances. I stand by that statement.

 

[old&slow]

If you find a weight difference between rounds that you've weighed, how do you tell if that difference is caused by the powder charge, the bullet weight or the case weight?

Or a combination of all three?

JB can I play ? My answer is to shoot them.

If it's a double powder charge you will know right away. If it's a no powder, squibb load you should know right away. If not, the next round will let you know for sure. If it's a combination of all three you probably won't notice the difference.

Come on guys, lighten up.. it's a good discussion.
Now let's talk best self defense caliber ,, primer hardness, or politics.

 

[M29since14]

Come on guys, lighten up.. it's a good discussion.

Yup, it's a reasonable question with a yes/no answer not really being possible across the board. We've had this same discussion here before. The digital scale is a valuable tool. Like any tool, its worth depends on the skill and knowledge of the user.

 

[brucev]

I just bought some reloads from a seemingly reputable source. Will a quality scale be able to detect a difference ( possible overcharge) in the reloaded ammo? If they are all the same I should be OK. Bought 100 rds. from him. I don't reload yet so I am not versed in this. This thread kinda scared me. Also recommend a good electronic scale for a reasonable price?

In a word... No. The variation of case weight, bullets weight and the simple deviation of the scale taken together would preclude any meaningful precision.

If you want to start reloading, RCBS makes a good electronic scale that is in my experience demonstrably reliable.

Do not let the OCB of some folks drive you up the wall worrying about the ammunition you bought. Take your firearm and ammunition to the range and have fun!

 

[dickttx]

That is what he doesn't know.

 

[chaparrito]

I tried to do that with some of my own reloads one time. Got worried about a squib. I found there was so much variation in the weight of the empty brass that it was impossible. I have exactly TWO very close friends whose reloads I'll shoot. They are far more experienced at loading than I am. Otherwise, I won't shoot anyone else's reloads.

 

[Rule3]

Doubless,

Thank you and I accept your apology.

There seems to be two chains of thought going on here.

As to the original post. Weighing them will tell him nothing. There is no way to know what powder was used. So that in itself is enough to say "don't shoot" them. Even if the all weigh exactly the same, the same as what??

Just don't shoot other peoples reloads unless you know for sure. I have lots of guys ask me to reload for them (Usually big rifle calibers) I always tell them no. Why? Yes, I know how to and do it well but what about that one in a million chance something goes wrong? I do not want to be responsible for damage to their expensive rifle let alone personal injury. No they would not sue me but I would feel terrible for ever.

If a reloader (lets say a Bench Rest kind of shooter) starts with all top quality components ( How about Lapua) and weighs each piece of brass and each bullet and culls out ones that weigh exactly the same on a high quality scale. Then uses a high quality match primer ( I doubt they vary much) Then weighs every powder charge and trickles them to perfection.

In theory, then yes they should all weigh the same within the variance +/- of the scale he or she is using.

However there would be no reason to weigh the finished round as the rounds were assembled with known items and done to perfection in the first place.

I personally load my rifle rounds slower and more carefully than my pistol rounds. I use a load block and manually drop each powder charge with a RCBS powder measure(an older model made of heavier metal than their new ones. It is about as perfect as a measure can get. I check drops every 10 or so, I use the same headstamp brass from the same lot all trimmed to length. No I do not weigh them or calculated internal water volume. I use Nosler, or Sierra bullets.

Now if an general reloader is loading say handgun ammo for a day at the range and uses mixed brass and lead projectiles, even though the powder is weighed perfectly and the primers are the same, there can be a large variance in just the bullet (maybe the lead or certainly the lube weight. Mixed brass will all weigh differently.
That combined with the variance in a scale can give very different total weight to the whole cartridge.

So I hope this clears things up and I am moving on.

 

[Collo Rosso]

Still curious, I weighted 20 of my reloads.

45 ACP , 230 gr XTP, Winchester brass, dropped powder charges, loaded on a Dillon 550.

Average weight 327.0 grs. high 331.2 grs., low 325.0 grs. extreme spread of 6.2 grains.

Curious and bored. I grabbed some mixed once fired 45acp brass out of the bucket and had the lightest at 86.0gr.(R/P) and the heaviest at 92.5gr.(PMC). A spread of 6.5 grains and real close to what old&slow found. That's more that enough to hide a double charge of most pistol powders for 45acp.

 

[Boogsawaste]

I went down and measured 2 boxes of 50 I made up recently. Some 125 jsp with BE, and some 158 swc with unique. Found an extreme spread of 2.3X grains with the BE ones and 3.4X grains with the unique loads. I pulled the lowest and highest and weighed the components separately. Charges were all the same, case differences of 1+gn and bullet differences of the same for the BE loads. Same difference on cases for the unique (both used Remington brass), but 2+ grain difference with the home cast LSWC. I found that even with the lightest of the groups I was still under a double charge weight wise for the heaviest, HOWEVER there could be an even a lighter one in the mix from a light case and bullet with a double charge and it will read normal on the scale since the differences were close to the charges. In other words, it probably didn't tell me anything. But what do I know, I've been doing this for like 2 months...lol

 

[Biggfoot44]

Shake then next to your ear to discover an empty case.

Without having weighed to cases and bullets beforehand , any variation in modest charges of fast powder ( most likely to have been used for commercial reloads of typical popular cals) would get lost in the +/- of the cases and bullets.

If you feel the need to check somthing , the along with the scale , invest in a bullet puller. Break down 5 random ctgs and weigh the powder charges.. If reasonably consistant , fire 5 rds over chrono to assure that the vels are in expected range.