Scandium revolvers from S&W

[Lee's Landing Billy]

This may have been addressed here before, if it has please indulge me. How does any manufacturer market and sell an item that cannot be what it says it is? The real puzzler is why people take for granted that a manufacturer will tell the truth about their product. Today scandium is selling for $7,656.00 an OUNCE! Really, how much can be in a revolver frame? Reminds me of the old man I told ya'll about that was selling rabbit sausage. I told him it was delicious and asked him what he cut it with. He answered, "mule meat" at a 50/50 ratio. One rabbit one mule! Scandium, really?!?

 

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

Don't know much about metals, but the metal in a 342PD frame is an alloy of scandium and aluminum and probably other stuff. Probably not as much scandium, by ratio, as rabbit in your rabbit sausage.

 

[chaparrito]

The alloy is usually half of one percent Scandium. Total world production of the element is on the order of a few hundred kilos a year. Personally I think it's mostly marketing hype. But what do I know?

 

[Dennis The B]

When scandium is added to an aluminum alloy, even in very small amounts, it changes the molecular structure of the alloy, and adds quite a bit of strength. While we think in terms of "hype" for S&W advertising, it's really the little bit that goes a long way.

 

[Onomea]

Bring back the unobtanium thread!

 

[venomballistics]

Scandium in aluminum means a pile more than hype.
These alloys were born of aerospace in Russia.
While we spent decades developing carbon fiber along with a slew of other composite materials, Russia turned to these alloys for their various needs in Mig fighters and their space program.

The fact that S&W uses it in their guns is a serious advantage over the more traditional alloys found in guns like the LCR.
If I had no choice other than an alloy framed gun ... I'll take the scandium alloy every time.

 

[cowart]

Personally I think it's mostly marketing hype. But what do I know?

Compare the model 442 to the very similar 340PD

The 442 weighs 15oz and can only handle .38 S&W Special +P, while the 340PD weighs 11.4oz and can handle .357 Mag ammo.

The Titanium Alloy Cylinder in the 340PD probably makes a difference too.

And of course, the 340PD costs twice as much.

 

[steelslaver]

Scandium in aluminum is similar to carbon in iron. 0,18% carbon in iron changes it from iron to mild steel and makes it way stronger, Iron can only use about .085% carbon any more than that and the carbon will need another alloy like vanadium or tungsten to bind with, or it does nothing. File steel only has 0.95% carbon, nickel steel only has about 3% nickel, 4140 chrome moly only has about 1% chrome and 0.20& moly. So, it is no surprise that aluminum only needs 0.5 to 1.0% to have a very signifgant effect.

So, if there is 20 oz of Scandium alloy in a revolver there is about 0.1oz of pure Scandium in the frame worth about $75.00

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

Well call me Mr. Kitty but I'm just as happy and can stand just as much pain as .38's +p in my 337. Don't feel the need to get thermo nuclear with a scandium J frame.

 

[kaaskop49]

Scandium in aluminum is similar to carbon in iron. 0,18% carbon in iron changes it from iron to mild steel and makes it way stronger, Iron can only use about .085% carbon any more than that and the carbon will need another alloy like vanadium or tungsten to bind with, or it does nothing. File steel only has 0.95% carbon, nickel steel only has about 3% nickel, 4140 chrome moly only has about 1% chrome and 0.20& moly. So, it is no surprise that aluminum only needs 0.5 to 1.0% to have a very signifgant effect.

So, if there is 20 oz of Scandium alloy in a revolver there is about 0.1oz of pure Scandium in the frame worth about $75.00

Great post! Another example of the wide scope of expertise our members can draw upon when necessary. And which expertise is freely offered!

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103

 

[vonfilm]

I have 2 Scandium alloy Revolvers, a 340SC and a 386 Mountain Lite. The 340SC is so light it disappears in my front pocket. The 386 is snappy not painful with .357 magnum with the Pachmayr sorbothane decelerator grips that I installed. I would love to have additional Scandium/Titanium models.
I use the 386 like a magnum kit gun, lighter than my 34-1, it is a great companion for backpacking, hunting or fishing.

 

[Voyager28]

The only thing I know about S&W Scandium revolvers is that I once fired a 329PD loaded with 240 grain .44 Mag rounds.

I will never make that mistake again.

Bob

 

[Oldtrader3]

I have (2) Scandium S&W revolvers: a 317 and a 331. They each weigh about 12 ounces which means I can carry them in a jacket inside pocket and not even know they are there. Both revolver are quite accurate, despite 2 and 3 inch barrels and even the .32 H&R Mag snaps a little but is controllable.

 

[Lee's Landing Billy]

Scandium in aluminum is similar to carbon in iron. 0,18% carbon in iron changes it from iron to mild steel and makes it way stronger, Iron can only use about .085% carbon any more than that and the carbon will need another alloy like vanadium or tungsten to bind with, or it does nothing. File steel only has 0.95% carbon, nickel steel only has about 3% nickel, 4140 chrome moly only has about 1% chrome and 0.20& moly. So, it is no surprise that aluminum only needs 0.5 to 1.0% to have a very signifgant effect.

So, if there is 20 oz of Scandium alloy in a revolver there is about 0.1oz of pure Scandium in the frame worth about $75.00

Bad math!!! one tenth of an ounce would be $750 not $75!!!

 

[Kernel Crittenden]

I have (2) Scandium S&W revolvers: a 317 and a 331.

I don't think the M317 has any scandium in it's alloy frame. This was discussed in the past.

 

[colt_saa]

This may have been addressed here before, if it has please indulge me. How does any manufacturer market and sell an item that cannot be what it says it is? The real puzzler is why people take for granted that a manufacturer will tell the truth about their product. Today scandium is selling for $7,656.00 an OUNCE! Really, how much can be in a revolver frame? Reminds me of the old man I told ya'll about that was selling rabbit sausage. I told him it was delicious and asked him what he cut it with. He answered, "mule meat" at a 50/50 ratio. One rabbit one mule! Scandium, really?!?

So even though it does what it claims to do, you are mad at the name.

When you go to a restaurant and they offer "Home Made Pie" for desert, do you ask the owner to come out and tell you whose HOME it was made in? Or do you just enjoy the pie?

Out of curiosity, do you know how much magnesium is actually in a car's "Mag" wheels?

Personally I think that Scandium Alloy is one of the greatest changes in revolver manufacturing since stainless steel. I know, I KNOW, how can they call it Stainless Steel when it will still rust?

Scandium alloy is not just for making nuclear powered pocket pistols. It's use in the bigger K, L and even N-frames have brought the big guns weights down to a point where they can be carried all day without having to sacrifice power. Right now I own an even dozen Scandium alloy S&Ws. My 327s are among the most accurate S&W revolvers I have ever fired and will not trade them for anything.

Scandium alloy has made possible the Night Guard series of concealed carry big bore snubbies along with the pug nosed N-frames

Trail guns in 357, 41 and 44 magnums now weigh less than K-frames with similar length barrels.

With all this good going for Scandium Alloy revolvers, you want to complain that Smith and Wesson is saying the frame is made of Scandium Alloy.

 

[BigG]

I believe Scandium is the biggest jump in technology I've ever seen in gun manufacture.

 

[Cal44]

When you go to a restaurant and they offer "Home Made Pie" for desert, do you ask the owner to come out and tell you whose HOME it was made in? Or do you just enjoy the pie?

I usually tell guests that we're serving pie home made at Costco.

Then there was the time that we were having a bunch of wine snobs over for dinner. My wife put cardboard box wine into some empty bottles from expensive wines.

She served it and got lots of complements on her excellent selection of wines.

 

[Cal44]

Most aluminum is alloyed with other metals to increase strength, or decrease weight. Some common metals alloy with aluminum are copper, magnesium, manganese, silicon, tin and zinc.

Magnesium is alloyed with aluminum in the aircraft industry to save weight. An aluminum magnesium alloy is lighter than aluminum alone, and isn't flammable.

Pure magnesium is highly flammable. I should know because I almost burned down the high school electronics lab by using a electric arc from a neon light transformer to ignite a block of magnesium.

My 242ti has an electron orbital radio active symbol on the side which I associate with Scandium -- but wasn't marketed as a Scandium gun.

I suspect it's possible S&W was adding Scandium to aluminum alloys for strength for a while before they started using Scandium in their marketing.

 

[Lee's Landing Billy]

So even though it does what it claims to do, you are mad at the name.

When you go to a restaurant and they offer "Home Made Pie" for desert, do you ask the owner to come out and tell you whose HOME it was made in? Or do you just enjoy the pie?

Out of curiosity, do you know how much magnesium is actually in a car's "Mag" wheels?

Personally I think that Scandium Alloy is one of the greatest changes in revolver manufacturing since stainless steel. I know, I KNOW, how can they call it Stainless Steel when it will still rust?

Scandium alloy is not just for making nuclear powered pocket pistols. It's use in the bigger K, L and even N-frames have brought the big guns weights down to a point where they can be carried all day without having to sacrifice power. Right now I own an even dozen Scandium alloy S&Ws. My 327s are among the most accurate S&W revolvers I have ever fired and will not trade them for anything.

Scandium alloy has made possible the Night Guard series of concealed carry big bore snubbies along with the pug nosed N-frames

Trail guns in 357, 41 and 44 magnums now weigh less than K-frames with similar length barrels.

With all this good going for Scandium Alloy revolvers, you want to complain that Smith and Wesson is saying the frame is made of Scandium Alloy.

I am neither mad nor complaining as you stated. Just wondering if some of you experts could tell me how much scandium it takes to actually affect another metal to make it so strong. I enjoy gaining knowledge everytime I come on here BUT I will call BS when someone gives a pot full of numbers and then says something costs $75 dollars when even using his tenth of an ounce theory the cost is actually $750. So I still would like to know how much of this heavenly metal it takes to make revolver alloy so strong. Think about the money required to make the gun Then do the math. Still not mad or complaining!

 

[Kernel Crittenden]

Duralumin was an alloy invented in 1903 by a researcher working for the Zeppelin airship company. It contains +90% aluminum and traces of copper and magnesium. The Germans used it in a lot of their planes.

 

[Lee's Landing Billy]

I usually tell guests that we're serving pie home made at Costco.

Then there was the time that we were having a bunch of wine snobs over for dinner. My wife put cardboard box wine into some empty bottles from expensive wines.

She served it and got lots of complements on her excellent selection of wines.

Love it!! Using the Scandium Theory just having the el cheapo in the bottle was close enough. YEAH marketing!

 

[colt_saa]

I am neither mad nor complaining as you stated. Just wondering if some of you experts could tell me how much scandium it takes to actually affect another metal to make it so strong. I enjoy gaining knowledge everytime I come on here BUT I will call BS when someone gives a pot full of numbers and then says something costs $75 dollars when even using his tenth of an ounce theory the cost is actually $750. So I still would like to know how much of this heavenly metal it takes to make revolver alloy so strong. Think about the money required to make the gun Then do the math. Still not mad or complaining!

No, your initial post does not read as a request for knowledge.

You could have posted "So I still would like to know how much of this heavenly metal it takes to make revolver alloy so strong" followed by a question mark.

Your post comes off sounding like a rant. Perhaps that is not what you intended, but it is what you posted.

As stated above Scandium has been used in Aerospace for half a century now. You could have Googled your answer in 30 seconds.

"how much scandium it takes to actually affect another metal to make it so strong"

It take less than 1/100th of a percent of scandium added to an aluminum alloy for it to begin showing significantly measurable increases in strength.

 

[balin]

Lookat the carbon content of good carbon steel. You don't need much for it tp do it's job.

 

[Lee's Landing Billy]

No, your initial post does not read as a request for knowledge.

You could have posted "So I still would like to know how much of this heavenly metal it takes to make revolver alloy so strong" followed by a question mark.

Your post comes off sounding like a rant. Perhaps that is not what you intended, but it is what you posted.

As stated above Scandium has been used in Aerospace for half a century now. You could have Googled your answer in 30 seconds.

"how much scandium it takes to actually affect another metal to make it so strong"

It take less than 1/100th of a percent of scandium added to an aluminum alloy for it to begin showing significantly measurable increases in strength.

First time in my 68 years I've been accused of a rant. I guess I have arrived. I was certain an expert could give me a hint of what I needed to know to cure my ignorance on this subject. Still strange that simple math that an old man can understand escapes a metal expert.

 

[Lee's Landing Billy]

Nice looking group of revolvers you showed. With a great investment in the scandium platform I understand your post a little better. I know, can we be friends if I send you some rabbit sausage?

 

[colt_saa]

Nice looking group of revolvers you showed. With a great investment in the scandium platform I understand your post a little better. I know, can we be friends if I send you some rabbit sausage?

I presume that you are referring to me.

My investment in the "Scandium Platform" is tiny by comparison to my investment in Carbon and Stainless steel platforms, less than 1/2 of a percent.

I just doubt that your endearment toward rabbit sausage will be enough for us to base a friendship upon.

 

[Otreb]

Most aluminum is alloyed with other metals to increase strength, or decrease weight. Some common metals alloy with aluminum are copper, magnesium, manganese, silicon, tin and zinc.

Magnesium is alloyed with aluminum in the aircraft industry to save weight. An aluminum magnesium alloy is lighter than aluminum alone, and isn't flammable.

Pure magnesium is highly flammable. I should know because I almost burned down the high school electronics lab by using a electric arc from a neon light transformer to ignite a block of magnesium.

My 242ti has an electron orbital radio active symbol on the side which I associate with Scandium -- but wasn't marketed as a Scandium gun.

I suspect it's possible S&W was adding Scandium to aluminum alloys for strength for a while before they started using Scandium in their marketing.

That thought had occurred to me as well....do you believe the 242 has the same scandium/alum frame as the later advertised guns?
I always wondered that with my 242....

 

[Cal44]

That thought had occurred to me as well....do you believe the 242 has the same scandium/alum frame as the later advertised guns?
I always wondered that with my 242....

I have no way of knowing, but alloying Aluminum with other metals to increase strength has been going on for a long time.

One issue is, if they were using Aluminum/Scandium alloy in the 242, why didn't they make it take 357 magnum?

We know the Ti cylinder could handle the pressure, and surely the L frame could handle it too given S&W eventually make a J frame version the 340PD.

 

[colt_saa]

That thought had occurred to me as well....do you believe the 242 has the same scandium/alum frame as the later advertised guns?
I always wondered that with my 242....

The 242 does not have a Scandium Alloy frame.