School me in the ways of the 1911

[Johnwaynesandw]

This weekend there is a gun show and I have been saving my money. Every hand gun I own is an S&W. I have been looking at the S&W 1911's along with some of the Kimbers, Springfield, and Para Ordnance. I like them all and I cant make up my mind, so what are the pros and cons of these guns?

Thanks,
John

 

[Johnwaynesandw]

This weekend there is a gun show and I have been saving my money. Every hand gun I own is an S&W. I have been looking at the S&W 1911's along with some of the Kimbers, Springfield, and Para Ordnance. I like them all and I cant make up my mind, so what are the pros and cons of these guns?

Thanks,
John

 

[Rancher]

Buy what has the features you want or need, at a reasonable price. There are also Colts out there. If you need to study the subject first, get Bill Wilson's book, The Combat .45 Auto. After you get the one you want, it's time for reliability testing and tuning.

 

[Deacon KC]

All four makers listed build good guns. Any used 1911 I pick up, I put a new Wolff spring set in for reliability. The 1911 design likes a little more lube than a Glock or polymer gun, so be aware of that. My Para 1911 is a very reliable shooter. Stay away from "surplus" mags as many are junk that did not pass inspection. Mec Gar, Wilson, Mc Cormick all make excellent 1911 mags.

 

[Indian4]

I just recently got a SW1911 over the Kimber. I didn't care for the para and everybody has springers, I like to be different. I ordered a Commander, but apparently Smith sent the wrong thing to the dealer. He offered me the fullsize railed PD for $800 OTD. Needless to say that's what I'm carrying now.

My Smith isn't fit as tight as some of the Kimbers I looked at. But, it's been malfunction free for 400 rds and counting. The factory ACT mags seemed to get too much spring set early on, so I changed over to Wilsons and have no complaints.

 

[Guest]

Originally posted by Indian4: ...The factory ACT mags seemed to get too much spring set early on...

Just what are you calling "Spring Set"???

I've been around 1911s for 40+ Years and that phrase is a new one on me. And, YES, this is a serious question. I want to understand what you are talking about.

 

[JacMac]

I'm with KKG: what is spring set? Anyway for the question; what are you going to use the piece for? In my humble opinion, if for carry then you should choose a piece with a series 70 firing system. Springfield makes a nice gun as a base for a competition piece as did Colt. Kimber has a secondary passive safety incorporated into the frame and is known as the II series. I find it to be a real pain in field-stripping. I do not like the external extractor on the Smith. I think the Wilson Combat and the Ed Brown guns are the best. Save more money. J

 

[Indian4]

I was referring to the magazine spring taking its set. When a new spring gets worked a few times it settles a little. It happens on vehicle suspensions and it happens on recoil springs (a new one will be stiffer than it's rating for x number of rounds). Mag springs are no exception, my wilsons have done it too, just to a lesser extent. I guess it would've been better to say the ACT springs are too weak. As a result, they don't always feed the last round. I won't attribute the problem to my pistol, because it happens in my dad's Colt as well.

I'm not bagging on the pistol at all, I'd rather have crappy factory-supplied mags and a pistol that runs as opposed to a $50 ubermag and a pistol that still won't work.

 

[armadillo66]

Before I ever spent money on a tricked out or high end 1911, I would buy myself a Rock Island or other GI clone. Learn how to take it apart and put it back together. Get in there and screw around with every pin, spring, lever, trigger group piece, whatever to your heart's content.
Then when you spend the good money on your shiny new state of the art 1911. DON'T SCREW WITH IT!
After that, every time you feel the need to take apart a 1911, lose springs, see little pieces get mangled or the finished dinged because you dropped it or because you put something in place wrong, whatever, your nice pretty new 1911 will not have to suffer from your stupidity, dislexia and thumbs.

 

[Guest]

Originally posted by Indian4: ...I guess it would've been better to say the ACT springs are too weak...

Now that we 'know' what you are talking about; just what makes you think the Springs are too weak? Unless your gun doesn't function, including holding the Slide Stop up after the last round, then you do have a problem with them and I'd contact S&W Service Department and I'm sure they'd be more than Happy to replace all of your 'bad' ones.

Having too heavy a spring in an autoloader(handgun) magazine can "also" be a problem. You need to remember that the magazine spring puts pressure on the Cartridges which in turn push up against the bottom of the Slide. If this pressure is too great the gun can malfunction as well as deform the bullets - not a good thing.

 

[Indian4]

I think the springs are too weak because they don't reliably feed the eighth round. 8-rounders have a reputation for that. This pistol eats every bullet profile from every other magazine I've tried without a hiccup. I'm aware there is such a thing as too much spring also.

I'm not especially worried about it. I load seven and use the ACTs at the range and use the Wilsons with a full compliment of Gold Dots when it's on my hip. If I get short of mags I'll toss in a Wolff spring and Wilson follower. As stated before, I got a good deal on a great pistol, I'm not going to get too crabby about a pair of $5 springs.

Just so this doesn't get totally off topic...
I think armadillo66's advice is sound, especially if the OP wants a 1911 that will allow him to get familiar with the platform and can be molded in his own image. Also, the magazine discussion demonstrates that the slabsides can be a finicky beast, but when it's right, it's a beautiful thing.

 

[JacMac]

Thanks for the info on the spring question. The advise about understanding a 1911 is well given. Myself, I prefer not to change any aspect of the original design and function

 

[jimmy123x]

Originally posted by Indian4:
I was referring to the magazine spring taking its set. When a new spring gets worked a few times it settles a little. It happens on vehicle suspensions and it happens on recoil springs (a new one will be stiffer than it's rating for x number of rounds). Mag springs are no exception, my wilsons have done it too, just to a lesser extent. I guess it would've been better to say the ACT springs are too weak. As a result, they don't always feed the last round. I won't attribute the problem to my pistol, because it happens in my dad's Colt as well.

I'm not bagging on the pistol at all, I'd rather have crappy factory-supplied mags and a pistol that runs as opposed to a $50 ubermag and a pistol that still won't work.

I too find that the magazine springs get too weak after about 1,000 rounds through them. My followers hang up at where the last round would be and don't hold open the slide sometimes if they get a little dirty while shooting at the range.

I like my SW1911, but would go with a Colt XSE model over it. My SW1911 has been a good gun, but sheered the slide stop off at 200 rounds. Needless to say SW covered shipping, fixed it, did a trigger job, and sent it back with nice wood grips for free. Mine is very accurate and hasn't had a hiccup since.

 

[JoeS]

I've been dinking around with 1911s for a lot of years now and of the ones you mention I think all can be excellent. It is probably possible to get an example with issues but not especially likely.
Personally, I tend to like Springfield Armory at the moment. They have a very good reputation for service and I don't especially care for the firing pin safety on the Kimber (although it doesn't really seem to cause any problems).
In specific models I am fond of the Springfield TRP. It comes with checkering on the front strap, night sights and is very tightly fit for a production pistol. it is also extremely accurate. Some find the checkering overly aggressive, I like it now that I am used to it. Another good model is their Trophy match which is fit about the same but has adjustable sights.
I'm sure Kimber has a model that is the equal of the TRPs as well as Para. I also would not overlook the S&W 1911s, the ones I've been around worked very well and seem well put together. They have the firing pin safety, but then again, it just doesn't seem to cause trouble.

 

[moxie]

Magazine springs should function reliably for many years before becoming weak or "taking a set." This includes still functioning down to the last round even after being fully loaded for a few years, although most careful folks will change out their ready mags every few months or so. Reject and replace any mag that won't perform properly or at least replace the spring with a good one such as Wolff. Recoil (slide) springs will weaken after many firings and most manufacturers have recommendations on this. Back in the day, many military armories kept their 1911s stored with the slides locked open, hanging on pegs through the trigger guards. This really shortened the life of the recoil spring and it wasn't unusual to have guns that wouldn't reliably go into battery.

Springs are cheap and easy to replace. Call Wolff with any questions at: Toll Free: 800-545-0077 (US & Canada)
Phone....: 610-359-9600

I have in the past found them to be extremely friendly and helpful.

 

[Johnwaynesandw]

Hey guys, first off let me thank you for all the info.

I went to the show today and picked up a Kimber. I am not sure of the model, but on the side it is stamped "Classic Custom". I will try to get some pics tommorrow when the sun is out.


Thanks again,
John

 

[Deacon KC]

Congrats on your Kimber. Just wait til you put the dimple in your ceiling from forgetting to hold your thumb over the recoil plug one of these days. Don't feel bad, we've all done it!

 

[johngalt]

Congrats, Kimber makes an excellent 1911. I have a Super Match II that I bought about 1.5 years ago. I had a couple initial failures early on, but it has had zero malfunctions for the last several 1000 rounds, shooting both ball and LSWC. Accuracy is excellent.