Scope or Red Dot?

[JaPes]

Not sure if I want 2 or 4 MOA.

Dot size is inversely proportionate to inherent accuracy and precision as distance increases. At 100 yards:

• 2 MOA will cover 2" of the target.
  
• 4 MOA will cover 4" of the target.

Both will give minute of bad guy accuracy at 100 yards, one just does it a little bit better. So it all depends on your purpose of use. I've plinked out to 100 yards using a 1 MOA and 2 MOA dot. Off hand, seated, prone, etc.. no problem hitting center mass of a static man-size target at 100 yards. I haven't found a uni-directional range that has horizontal traversing targets near me yet.

If and when you get to a point where you get the novelty of flinging rounds downrage for minute of bad guy accuracy, then a scope is the way to go. I got my fill of sending rounds downrange at a quick pace. I mounted a Nikon P223 kit (scope, rings, wind meter) to my MSR and am having fun again. Frustration level increased, ammo cost per range trip decreased. LOL

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

General thoughts...

1x red dot is for fast target acquisition shooting offhand. If that's the purpose then it's the right optic. If you're concerned with group size or shooting from bags or bi-pod... a 1-4x optic is better suited.

Dot size. I prefer a larger dot size. It's easier to pick up for fast target acquisition. If you're concerned with how much target the dot will cover at 25yd-100yd then we're back to more precision aiming than fast target acquisition. 1-4x optic is better suited.

Field of view. Shooting with both eyes open you'll have unlimited field of view with a 1x red dot. If you're just peering through the tube with the other eye closed you're defeating one of the main advantages of a 1x red dot.

Vortex is just another budget optic. IMO, the difference between a $200 Vortex and a $80 Bushnell TRS-25 or PA is the Vortex warranty. Paying double for a warranty.

For self defense I don't consider any of the above mentioned red dots well suited. If self defense is a consideration get an Aimpoint.

 

[Klagz13]

My best "grouping" ever was with a red dot, indoors, at 25 yds. It is a cheap $25 one from Amazon, and is now mounted on my Remy 12g. I moved to a 3x fixed Nikon in addition to a pair of side folding Bius sights


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[cyphertext]

Vortex is just another budget optic. IMO, the difference between a $200 Vortex and a $80 Bushnell TRS-25 or PA is the Vortex warranty. Paying double for a warranty.

Agree. From my experience, Bushnell has very good customer service. I purchased a different Bushnell red dot from the Cabela's bargain cave. It was missing the sun shade and filter, and was priced accordingly. Bushnell sent me the missing parts at no charge after contacting them to purchase the missing pieces.

We have had a TRS-25 on one of our rifles for over 5 years now with no issue. It has exceeded my expectations for such an inexpensive optic.

 

[LAA]

General thoughts...

1x red dot is for fast target acquisition shooting offhand. If that's the purpose then it's the right optic. If you're concerned with group size or shooting from bags or bi-pod... a 1-4x optic is better suited.

Dot size. I prefer a larger dot size. It's easier to pick up for fast target acquisition. If you're concerned with how much target the dot will cover at 25yd-100yd then we're back to more precision aiming than fast target acquisition. 1-4x optic is better suited.

Field of view. Shooting with both eyes open you'll have unlimited field of view with a 1x red dot. If you're just peering through the tube with the other eye closed you're defeating one of the main advantages of a 1x red dot.

Vortex is just another budget optic. IMO, the difference between a $200 Vortex and a $80 Bushnell TRS-25 or PA is the Vortex warranty. Paying double for a warranty.

For self defense I don't consider any of the above mentioned red dots well suited. If self defense is a consideration get an Aimpoint.

Having all three, I'll say that Vortex IS a step up from Bushnell, and below Aimpoint. IMO, Vortex & Burris are along the same lines, price wise, clarity of optics, and durability.

 

[Kadonny]

General thoughts...

1x red dot is for fast target acquisition shooting offhand. If that's the purpose then it's the right optic. If you're concerned with group size or shooting from bags or bi-pod... a 1-4x optic is better suited.

Dot size. I prefer a larger dot size. It's easier to pick up for fast target acquisition. If you're concerned with how much target the dot will cover at 25yd-100yd then we're back to more precision aiming than fast target acquisition. 1-4x optic is better suited.

Field of view. Shooting with both eyes open you'll have unlimited field of view with a 1x red dot. If you're just peering through the tube with the other eye closed you're defeating one of the main advantages of a 1x red dot.

Vortex is just another budget optic. IMO, the difference between a $200 Vortex and a $80 Bushnell TRS-25 or PA is the Vortex warranty. Paying double for a warranty.

For self defense I don't consider any of the above mentioned red dots well suited. If self defense is a consideration get an Aimpoint.

This might not be a popular opinion these days, but you can also look at an Eotech of you like a small dot size but still want fast acquisition. Their ring reticle is terrific.

 

[Krell1]

Sounds like you should be looking at a non-magnified red dot or reflex sight. The smaller the dot, the more accurate your hits will be. The smaller the dot, the brighter it needs to be for daylight use.

Check your battery every month with a voltmeter or your tongue if you know what 3v DC feels like. Set a reminder on your phone so you don't forget - a dead battery is bad.

Me personally - I am pretty fast and comfortable with the irons - large aperture with both eyes open.

I used a red dot when I was shooting bullseye. ALWAYS check the battery before you shoot and have a spare fresh one on hand. Mine went out during a match one time so I ended up with a DNF. Sad day for me since it was a major match that I ended up missing. I did end up entering another sectional match and made up for it later in the year. When NRA posted the results of the sectionals for the year I ended up 13th in my class. Not bad.

I've since changed my sight and I'm planning on putting the older red dot up for sale. Not home now so, as soon as I have pics I'll put in the for sale thread. It's an Aimpoint 2000 and works great.

 

[blues7]

Dot size. I prefer a larger dot size. It's easier to pick up for fast target acquisition. If you're concerned with how much target the dot will cover at 25yd-100yd then we're back to more precision aiming than fast target acquisition. 1-4x optic is better suited.

Phil, (or anyone else with similar experience), does raising the brightness or intensity on a 2 MOA dot, (beyond the "just seeing it" level), help mitigate that issue? I'm making an assumption that even if the dot "bleeds" or "smears" a bit under such a high setting it would still be accurate enough for quick point and shoot?

I haven't yet had an opportunity to experiment with the H-2 under such conditions so am curious what your experience is in this regard.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Phil, (or anyone else with similar experience), does raising the brightness or intensity on a 2 MOA dot, (beyond the "just seeing it" level), help mitigate that issue? I'm making an assumption that even if the dot "bleeds" or "smears" a bit under such a high setting it would still be accurate enough for quick point and shoot?

I haven't yet had an opportunity to experiment with the H-2 under such conditions so am curious what your experience is in this regard.

Sure, you can crank up the brightness setting and it will starburst larger.

 

[Kadonny]

Yup, my PA Micro dot is downright obnoxious when cranked all the way up, even in daylight....it gives you a huge dot for quick acquistion.

 

[NitroZip]

What mount for a Vortex Strikefire II? Does it need something to sit up higher and clear the front sights?

 

[andyo5]

This accessory will provide absolute co witness with the sights.
Vortex Optics - Cantilever 30 mm Ring Absolute Co-Witness

IDK if it is practical for the scope to sit above the sights, though.

 

[DougS]

I took my AR to the range yesterday, I got a strikefire ll on mine. At 100 yards I was shooting groups on 3 shots I could cover with a dime.

 

[JaPes]

Riiiiiight

 

[Edknn123]

$100 isn't much to work with....................................actually it's next to nothing.............................. that said

Check out the Bushnell TRS-25 ..... good rep....been using one on my Beretta 9mm carbine for 10 years... MSRP $140 on Amazon $75..... you'll need a riser....$10-20

Scope check out Weaver 1-3x20 Shotgun scope..... about $160.... have one on my utility rifle a Ruger 77/357..... a .357 bolt gun.

I don't know if I got a bad one or if QC has gone to heck, but my 1 week old TRS 25 self destructed yesterday after it's 2nd range visit and a total of 500 rounds on a 9mm carbine. The setting knob fell off while shooting from the little recoil the gun has. Midway USA is out so they offered a refund. Called Bushnell, they are out also but offered to exchange it for a TRS 32. For ranges of 100 yards or less, would a jump from 3 MOA to 5 MOA make a big difference. They offered an even exchange, and if I purchase the TRS 25 elseware, the price is about $40 more than Midway.

 

[rock_castle]

In that price range you should take a long hard look at Primary Arms.

 

[Edknn123]

In that price range you should take a long hard look at Primary Arms.

If you are talking about me, I agree but Primary arms is out of the $89 red dot until sometime next month. On top of that, they have shipping charges of I think a little less than $10 and want $20 for a riser. My TRS 25 hirise , came with a riser, was only $79.99 free shipping so even that is jumping $40.

 

[TAC]

Hey guys, some of you might know I just got into the AR scene and am loving it. I am looking to get either a scope or a red dot.

I am really leaning towards the red dot since most of my shoot is 25-100 yards. I will never exceed 100yrds at least not anytime soon and also would like to have the ability to use the rifle in close quarters if need be in a defensive situation.

Don't rush into getting an optic. Practice with your iron sights. You'll be surprised what you can do with them! I hate optics, bulky, heavy, batteries, fragile, limited field of view, slow.

 

[cyphertext]

Don't rush into getting an optic. Practice with your iron sights. You'll be surprised what you can do with them! I hate optics, bulky, heavy, batteries, fragile, limited field of view, slow.

I have to disagree with your assessment of optics... especially the limited field of view and slow.

A red dot is much faster than irons. Nothing to line up like iron sights. Doesn't matter where my head is positioned, doesn't require a repeatable cheek weld... if I can look through the tube, I can get a hit on target, no matter if the dot is centered or off to one side of the tube.

When using a red dot correctly, with both eyes open, you do not have a limited field of view.

Fragile? That would really depend on the optic. Aimpoint and Trijicon are not fragile. My cheap Bushnells bounce around in the back of the truck, in the Jeep, on the four wheeler and still maintain their zero.

Bulky, heavy? Again, depends on the optic. Would see this as more applicable to scopes than red dots.

 

[rotlex]

Don't rush into getting an optic. Practice with your iron sights. You'll be surprised what you can do with them! I hate optics, bulky, heavy, batteries, fragile, limited field of view, slow.

The problem at my age, or I should say eye sight quality, is I can't do anything with irons past 25 yards, LOL. I pretty much need a scope I can adjust to my eye site or I'm shooting blind.