Scripting your gun fight?

[Smoke]

It is nearly impossible to imagine what your mental state will be when you point a gun at someone for the first time. It is a life altering experience.

I've only ever pointed a gun at another person one time. I don't know that I would call it "Life Altering".

I'm still not sure exactly what happened. Which means I shouldn't have involved myself at all.

I was putting my stuff in my car getting ready to go to work and the guy came walking through the parking lot paying no attention to me.

He went behind the dumpsters and through a hole in the fence at the end of the lot. I saw him fooling around with a gate to somebody else's backyard and I heard a gunshot.

I took cover behind my car and I saw the guy come backing out from behind the dumpster with both of his hands out in front of him. I didn't know what was going on, I drew my gun and I started yelling at the guy. I asked him over and over and over again "Are you okay?" "Have you been shot?" I was within 10 ft of him screaming as loud as I could and he never even acknowledged me. I think that either he had fired the shot or he had been very close to whoever had and his ears were still ringing.

I got away from him. I got inside and I called the police. When they showed up they didn't find a gun. They didn't find any shell casings and the people that lived in the house denied ever having fired a shot. As far as I know that was the end of the investigation.

If I had it to do all over again I would have stayed behind my car and not involved myself at all.

 

[Drm50]

This is a lot of BS. There are people getting rich peddling books and training classes on SD shooting. From the people I know that carry I would guess over half would freeze and a good many of the others would hesitate not out of fear but that mental block that they may be in a world of trouble when they pull the trigger. The you have the ones with gunfighter syndrome that their life’s mission is to get to shoot at somebody. This type is a danger to the public.
For normal people situational awareness is half the battle. The other half is willingness to shoot without hesitation. It ain’t going to be a High Noon situation.

 

[biku324]

The worst part about folks carrying who aren't used to dealing with angry, aggressive, high, or drunk people (let alone the mentally ill) is they have only one tool, and it is most likely the wrong one.

If the only solution at hand is a hammer, then every problem must be a nail.

 

[Old cop]

If you don't mind me asking, how long had you been employed as a police officer when that fight happened? I'm asking strictly for curiosity's sake.

Six years on the job.

 

[rockquarry]

This is a lot of BS. There are people getting rich peddling books and training classes on SD shooting. From the people I know that carry I would guess over half would freeze and a good many of the others would hesitate not out of fear but that mental block that they may be in a world of trouble when they pull the trigger. The you have the ones with gunfighter syndrome that their life’s mission is to get to shoot at somebody. This type is a danger to the public.
For normal people situational awareness is half the battle. The other half is willingness to shoot without hesitation. It ain’t going to be a High Noon situation.

Good post.

 

[rockquarry]

None of my training or experience really prepared me for my 1974 gunfight. Most of our training back then was bulls-eye shooting instead of being taught to fight w/a gun. All I can offer is to get some good training & put in as much range time as possible.

Good post.

 

[colt_saa]

Something I notice a lot on the Internet and in person. People scripting their gunfight based on movies, stories, the internet, heck even real experience or history.

Try to keep the mind open to possibilities and war game it in your head but don’t assume you know what distance, location, time of day, circumstances or number of rounds you’ll need.

Yeah statistics can help but don’t assume anything.

Train for worse case scenarios. Train at longer distances than statistically expected. Train for multiple targets that are moving and require more rounds on target than statistically expected. Induce some stress while training.

Just something I’ve noticed. I see people cutting their training short because of statistics like:
Most gun fights are 7 yards and in or they are usually 3 rounds at 3 yards in 3 seconds and so on.

Train like they happen at 25 yards in 1.5 seconds.

Just some of my thoughts.

Yours?

I have had a sidearm with me almost every day of my life since 1980

In America, I have had the need to draw a sidearm in a surprise situation on five occasions. Only once did I need to discharge that sidearm

Three of those five scenarios are things that I never even considered. The reason for this is that folks that do Evil things do not think like you and me

Get yourself a copy of Bill Jordan's No Second Place Winner and read it

On 9/11 the US was caught off guard because we never conceptualized that 19 Evil people would take four Jumbo Jets and use them as Weapons of Mass Destruction.

Everything we did after that to better safeguard our Nation is almost useless as the next time something happens it will be another scenario that just Never comes into the thought process of Good People

 

[rockquarry]

The worst part about folks carrying who aren't used to dealing with angry, aggressive, high, or drunk people (let alone the mentally ill) is they have only one tool, and it is most likely the wrong one.

If the only solution at hand is a hammer, then every problem must be a nail.

Good post. Not mentioned enough but certainly an important consideration: the condition and frame of mind of your opponent. How many really have training and experience dealing with such people?

 

[BAM-BAM]

I've been shooting for 60 years, handguns about 46 concealed carrying for 44. Shot police qualification courses twice a year for about 10 years in the 80s and 90s.

I've had the opportunity to do high level/Police Dept simulated training (last few years)..... shoot/no shoot, traffic stops etc. I never thought about the physical acts of drawing, aiming or actually firing the "gun"[compressed air to simulate recoil].

Practice enough that "using" the gun is all second nature and muscle memory; then practice some more....leave your mind free to handle the tactical situation.

I've done ,PPC, USPSA and IDPA for the "practice" and time behind my carry guns..... not as a game at warp speed.

Colt saa is right we are always ready to fight the last war ....... not the next!

 

[ISCS Yoda]

Gun writers??????? Most of them don’t have a clue. Same as the guys on tv shows. They repeat the same old thing over and over. Everyone needs to do what works for them. Train in a way that builds confidence.

ISCS Yoda wrote: If the gun writers assume 7 yards is a standard fighting distance I'm good with that. If you want to debate the point debate it with them but practicing at 75 feet for a gunfight is impractical - but it is fun to be good at it - but practicing point shooting at 21 feet or less is ESSENTIAL.

Bald 1 makes a great point except I think that I have a lot more respect for the NRA's writers than he does.

I do agree that you could be caught in an active shooter situation where the perp has a rifle so being able to shoot at a distance is a required skill but I disagree with Bald 1 when he says

I simply think that shooting at 25-50 yds makes the 7yd shot easier

. IMNSHO it does the exact opposite - the problem that I see is that if you train and train using your sights for 25 yards then you will look for them automatically at 7 yards. Point shooting for up close and personal beats sight shooting every doggone day in my book.....

YMMV

 

[Drm50]

This is all over thinking for the average Joe. How many people are going to sign up for intensive police officer training, let alone do a lot of range time.
Get real. There ain’t no need for fast draw, do people really think they are going to be given a chance to draw. If bad guy has gun pointed at you, not time to draw. Time to draw as when you see situation justifying it.
If individual doesn’t have the attention span to do what has to be done when they aren’t expecting it, they may be better off without a gun.
Use to be giving bad guy your money was probably wisest move for most people. Today we have this human scum that kills innocent people for no good reason. People have to get their heads straight. Watch where you park, watch around you when paying for purchases, using ATMs, ect. This is half the battle before it starts.

 

[crstrode]

Prepare for what might happen.
Respond to what does happen.

 

[Rustyt1953]

 

[BC38]

The worst part about folks carrying who aren't used to dealing with angry, aggressive, high, or drunk people (let alone the mentally ill) is they have only one tool, and it is most likely the wrong one.

If the only solution at hand is a hammer, then every problem must be a nail.

So what is your proposed solution to this dilemma? Disarm everyone "less qualified" than you? Let the rest of us try to deal with the "angry, aggressive, high, or drunk, and mentally ill people" with nothing more than our bare hands?

I'm sorry, but this comes across a just another variation on one of your favorite themes - that only professionals like YOU should be armed - ergo us average peons shouldn't be allowed to "carry".

We've all heard you express that same opinion over, and over, and over in various ways. You never seem to tire of finding new and different ways to push that same philosophy.

FWIW, as it was written, the 2nd Amendment applies to just about EVERYONE. Not just those you approve of.

 

[ISCS Yoda]

DRM50 This is all over thinking for the average Joe.

You know what I like about that? It is so totally, absolutely true. We, that's all of us here, are shooters and live in the gun world, the world of the Second Amendment, the world of what ifs and I do this and I practice that and I trained for this and I trained for that.

The world of gun owners is much larger than our world and "the average Joe" sticks a gun on his belt and thinks he is ready to go. We are burdened with experience and various amounts of expertise. Average Joe has a tool that goes bang and he hopes that he can use it to protect himself.

Big difference............

 

[wood714]

My thoughts are you could train in every type of firearms competition, police, and combat shooting every day. Practice fast draw, be able to hit a quarter at 50 yards with a handgun every shot.

Still nobody will have a clue how they might respond if the target is shooting back, till it actually happens.

The kid in the mall who saved no telling how many lives... "Police said Eli Dicken learned to shoot from his grandfather and that he had no military or police training."

I've read great multitudes of books on WWII, and Vietnam. Read stories of people in their first firefight laying in the fetal position frozen with terror. Yet they had military training.

 

[seasoldier85]

This is a lot of BS. There are people getting rich peddling books and training classes on SD shooting. From the people I know that carry I would guess over half would freeze and a good many of the others would hesitate not out of fear but that mental block that they may be in a world of trouble when they pull the trigger. The you have the ones with gunfighter syndrome that their life’s mission is to get to shoot at somebody. This type is a danger to the public.
For normal people situational awareness is half the battle. The other half is willingness to shoot without hesitation. It ain’t going to be a High Noon situation.

True to some degree. Quality training should emphasize marksmanship, weapon handling/ manipulation, and situational awareness. Unfortunately, the last component isn't always stressed enough. I recommend watching "First Person Defender" videos as well as "Active Self Protection". It's interesting to see how people react even though they know it's a scenario (in the case of First Person), or in actual violent encounters (ASP). My wife and I have been to a couple of quality 4 day classes. She's an excellent shot and very safe, but doesn't carry because she's not sure she could take a life. I respect that. Besides, we almost never venture out apart from each other and I WILL tcob if there is no other option.

 

[Rustyt1953]

As Mike Tyson said: "Everybody has plans until they get hit for the first time..."

It's hard to predict what will occur after a massive adrenaline dump.

 

[Drm50]

The trouble with a lot of people who do a little recreational shooting tend to think SD situation is some kind of shooting match. 1st thing they get off on is lights, lasers and now, can you believe it, optics on their EDC. When not worrying over things like that, it’s fast draw holsters and bullets that look like drill bits. All this because some gun writer or YouTuber who has never been in a gunfight says so.
As far as the firearm you need one that you can operate without fumbling or looking at it. SD is going to be short pointing range.SD is what it means.

 

[biku324]

Most people who unlawfully shoot and kill others know them. What's the training for your friend drinking and being depressed, then goes to the bathroom, comes out with a gun to shoot himself, then turns on you at the kitchen table? Or you've been arguing with your spouse; the spouse stops arguing and goes into the bedroom, then comes out with a Glock pointing at you from 8 feet away?

These and other enormously varied real-life incidents happen frequently and seldom are news.