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Try Winchester's new .45 ACP 230 grain PDX1 load.
Self Defense Load 45 ACP
- Thread starter jj2am44
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Try Winchester's new .45 ACP 230 grain PDX1 load.
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I don't really get that. I assume you mean you don't trust HP to reliably expand. So, your "solution" is to load the magazine with half expanding bullets and half with a style that FOR SURE will NOT expand. How does that increase your chances of expansion? If the HP does not expand, it acts like ball anyway, so why stagger? Ball increases your chances of overpenetration and injuring a bystander or going through your drywall and injuring a loved one. I have NEVER heard of ANY law enforcement agency alternating different styles of bullets, and I believe there is some indication that doing so decreases reliability of the pistol somewhat. I am sorry to say that it sounds like your solution is not well thought out.
David Sinko
Member
The Gold Dot is an excellent bullet but Speer tends to load it quite soft. They seem to expand rather well, even at lower velocities, but at the cost of penetration. Penetration IS stopping power and the bullet that both expands AND penetrates completely will always provide the best stopping power. If you're afraid that your bullet will shoot through and hit somebody else, that's very noble and compassionate of you, but you have certainly compromised your stopping power. I feel too many people are choosing underpowered ammo. Besides, innocents are far more likely to be shot due to wild, innacurate shots than shoot throughs.
My 625 is a revolver and it feeds everything with complete reliability. Every bullet I have ever shot through it is more than accurate enough for self defense purposes. It all comes down to which bullet is chosen, how well it is made and how fast it is going. I'll choose the heaviest Barnes XPB, followed by the Gold Dot and any other bonded bullet moving as fast as possible.
Dave Sinko
My 625 is a revolver and it feeds everything with complete reliability. Every bullet I have ever shot through it is more than accurate enough for self defense purposes. It all comes down to which bullet is chosen, how well it is made and how fast it is going. I'll choose the heaviest Barnes XPB, followed by the Gold Dot and any other bonded bullet moving as fast as possible.
Dave Sinko
flop-shank
US Veteran
Hardball was a great load forty years ago
Reliability issues aside, there is no reason in this day and age to use hardball for general purpose carry ammo IMO. The current generation of bonded hollowpoints in .45 ACP are incredible feats of engineering. Modern stuff (a prime example would be HST) appears to work well, even through auto glass, in testing I've seen. That said, we should all use what we are comfortable with.
Reliability issues aside, there is no reason in this day and age to use hardball for general purpose carry ammo IMO. The current generation of bonded hollowpoints in .45 ACP are incredible feats of engineering. Modern stuff (a prime example would be HST) appears to work well, even through auto glass, in testing I've seen. That said, we should all use what we are comfortable with.
Rick R
Member
Has anyone tried Hornady's 230gr +P XTP load? Bass Pro had them for a decent price and I picked up a box to try in my M325
I've shot a box of them. They were accurate & functioned 100%, but I prefer the 230gr +P HST from Federal.
BreakerDan
Member
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I know of a Texas Ranger who in recent times carried his 1911 with ball
and HP staggered in the mag. He carried it that way because he did not
trust the HP to go deep enough. This man knows what he is doing. A lot of people don't trust 45 HP in the penetration category. I carried a 1911 hog hunting for a while and believe me the 230 JHP doesn't go all that deep, even the 230 +P Ranger SXT. I know of someone who shot javelinas with that load and the bullet was lying on the ground behind the 40 lb javelina after being shot with it. Not impressive! 45 230 ball does not over penetrate as badly as some say either, it is short and fat for its size- not conducive to deep penetration.
I also heard of a LEO shooting where the 200 gr Speer Flying Ashtray bullet penetrated one inch, balled up and stopped. That particular officer
had also been involved in several other shootings and he said the 230 ball performed ever time 100% for him.
Some rural LEOs who carry the 1911 .45 still swear by and carry them with what they were designed to be used with- ball. It works and always has.
Even though it is not popular in the gun rags, with Evan Marshall, or among the gun shop ninjas who sell HPs , some of the most knowledgeable handgunners will tell you to run 230 ball in 45s. Clint Smith of Thunder Ranch for one says run 230 ball and he has actual combat experience with it.
I've gone with Marshall and Sanow's stopping power report, and have carried 230-grain Federal HydraShok in my .45s for years. From the recoil, as compared to GI hardball, I believe it has a bit more oomph, as well. Feeds reliably in all of my guns.
mkk41
US Veteran
My carryin' Colt Combat Commander is loaded with Glaser Safety slugs. Spare mags have the old Remington 185gr SJHP+P.
sigp220.45
US Veteran
230 grain Golden Saber. Its free.
running iron
US Veteran
I started placing a 230 FMJ on top with a 200gr H.P. under, then a 230 FMJ and so on. I reload so I adjusted the power level to shoot all to point of aim. I think it will work out but I hope I never have to find out. I do feel better with the staggered method. I can imagine situations where it would be a good idea. But they would both have to shoot to the same place IMO. I have been in situations where a confrontation would take place a greater distances than your might encounter in a urban environment. That for me is why I like the idea.
I'm not sure I understand the logic of staggering HP with ball. Isn't a HP that fails to expand essentially a hardball? Why not just shoot HP and if it expands great, if not it's already as good as a hardball.
Sir, as Mr. Sinko wrote a page or so ago, the concern with hollowpoints isn't failure to expand, but rather failure to penetrate. I want enough penetration to reach the vitals under any reasonably likely conditions (bad target angle, heavy clothing, stuff in pockets, arms in the way, etc.), and I'm not confident that a hollowpoint can provide that.
However, modern hollowpoints have a good record, and I'm a hopeful sort, so I do carry them. I do not alternate them with hardball in the same magazine, though. I load a hollowpoint in the chamber, with the rest of the magazine hardball. My thinking, FWIW, is that if the first shot out of the gun (the HP) does the job, great. But if it doesn't, I'm probably going to need hardball penetration from the following rounds.
JMHO, and YMMV.
Hope this helps, and Semper Fi.
Ron H.
All of the modern 230gr bonded JHPs penetrate barriers as well as ball, and even better in some cases as it is more likely to dig in instead of ricocheting off, and less likely to fragment on windshields.
LAPD SWAT used to carry back-up mags of ball if they needed it but no longer do so since the newer bonded ammo makes this practice unnecessary.
I would only carry ball if I was forced to, such as being in the military, or if it was a SHTF situation and I had no other ammo available.
LAPD SWAT used to carry back-up mags of ball if they needed it but no longer do so since the newer bonded ammo makes this practice unnecessary.
I would only carry ball if I was forced to, such as being in the military, or if it was a SHTF situation and I had no other ammo available.
BUFF
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
I have personal experience with the Federal 230 grain +P Tactical bonded. I fired four shots from a Colt Commander (4-1/4 inch barrel) at 2 men wearing winter clothing. Two shots expanded fully and exitted the torso of each. One struck the upper side of the skull of one of them and deflected down into the shoulder, causing a depressed skull fracture with bone fragments as secondary projectiles, penetrated the shoulder several inches and expanded fully. The fourth shot was from an odd angle, penetrating the torso from the side, under the armpit, and ranged down through the body, at an angle, about 18-22 inches. X-rays made it look like it expanded but the surgeons left it there.
Penetration was plenty adequate; two of four were through-and-through. Expansion was consistent. Weight retention was nearly 100%. I couldn't have asked for anything better.
If your gun feeds a quality JHP loading, there is no reason to use ball any more. Bullet technology has come a long way in the last 20 years.
Penetration was plenty adequate; two of four were through-and-through. Expansion was consistent. Weight retention was nearly 100%. I couldn't have asked for anything better.
If your gun feeds a quality JHP loading, there is no reason to use ball any more. Bullet technology has come a long way in the last 20 years.
flop-shank
US Veteran
+1. I think hardball is a waste of time. Today's best JHPs are marvels of engineering.
Thank you for sharing that, Buff.
Pigirondan
Member
Load-X 230 grain FMJ flat point.
Centenniel
Member
I doubt there is actually a "bad" self defense load for the 45ACP. Even 230 grain ball ammo is effective. I have used a number of good loads through the years and am currently using Speer 230 grain Gold Dots. The load you chose must, above everything else, function 100% in YOUR handgun and be accurate enough for the job.
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