Selling Firearms into the State of California – Why Not!!

[bigl1911]

I was reading the forum rules and realized a few of my conversations regarding gun issues in California may have overstepped into an infraction, although I haven't received one for this subject thank you very much! Needless to say the gun related issues in California are political by nature and without question an infringement on our 2nd Amendment rights. Currently we are dealing with MicroStamping among other things with both Ruger and SW walking away from the State abandoning us IMHO as customers. I have purchased a few handguns recently on GB and on more than one occasion have found sellers and FFL's unwilling to sell or ship to us in the sunshine state (correction the Golden State) given what appears to be an unwillingness to comply with Cali requirements even with legal guns (rostered in the state or exempt c/r). What I want to say is those of you that refuse to do business with us you are not helping the cause. You are helping those that would ban firearms in the US by supporting their cause. The truth is the antigun activists believe every gun taken from a private party and every gun that is not brought into the state of Cali including every gun removed from the state is a victory for those that do not believe we have the right as law abiding citizens to own a firearm. I ask those of you that refuse to do business with California to reconsider your position. If I have missed something please educate me... BigL

 

[steelslaver]

I believe that some of it is just plain old distrust for your state government. Some are just outright apprehensive about doing any gun business with a state that has way to many rules and regulations. Why bother when there are plenty of others that don't have a bunch of strange laws. For all I know I might sell a gun to some one in CA and 3 years later it gets stolen and CA might decide that its all my fault. Sorry your state is so totally messed up. I won't event travel there for any reason, let alone sell a gun there.

 

[bigl1911]

I believe that some of it is just plain old distrust for your state government. Some are just outright apprehensive about doing any gun business with a state that has way to many rules and regulations. Why bother when there are plenty of others that don't have a bunch of strange laws. For all I know I might sell a gun to some one in CA and 3 years later it gets stolen and CA might decide that its all my fault. Sorry your state is so totally messed up. I won't event travel there for any reason, let alone sell a gun there.

I cannot disagree... There are times where things happen in our local government that is clear result orientated with not checks and balances.... I do appreciate your position....

 

[handejector]

Selling a gun to a CA resident adds 4 or 5 minutes to my shipping process.

Some dealers seem intimidated by the roster, like they can't look up a particular model and determine if it is actually on the list.
Time elapsed, maybe 90 seconds.

Others seem to feel intimidated by the shipment approval process. No big deal- I login, fill in a few blanks, and print 2 copies of each approval. One for me, one for the receiving dealer.
Time elapsed, maybe 2-3 minutes.

If that is too complicated for a dealer, maybe he should not be selling real guns.

 

[HeyJoe]

same with new york now. a lot of ads even for 5 shot revolvers say no sales to new york. so much for standing shoulder to shoulder.

 

[PA Guns & Ammo]

Others seem to feel intimidated by the shipment approval process. No big deal- I login, fill in a few blanks, and print 2 copies of each approval. One for me, one for the receiving dealer.
Time elapsed, maybe 2-3 minutes.

Many dealers I have talked to do not want to be in the California state system because they do not trust the government in California. I just found out recently that the dealer I have been going to is set up to do California sales. I will sell to Californians the next time I sell a firearm now that I have a dealer who is setup for their stupid system. NY is not that hard. You have to be careful about NYC. The rest of NY is basically simple for handguns.

James

 

[ladder13]

same with new york now. a lot of ads even for 5 shot revolvers say no sales to new york. so much for standing shoulder to shoulder.

People are just plain ignorant about NY guns laws AND NYer's. The misinformation and drama I read on this forum regarding anything NY, is quite stunning.

 

[oberon]

Y'all might be better advised to get your shop in order and then keep it that way, rather than complain about how badly you are treated by the free market.
Or move to a free state.

 

[HeyJoe]

some of us arent cut and run type of guys as apparantly you are. its my home, i grew up here,i'll fight here until there is no hope left. as of right now the light is still burning. by the way is that y'all a southern maine accent?

 

[steelslaver]

I do feel for those who are trying to carry the torch in CA. Not their fault, it is a case of sever case of what happens with an uneducated democracy where the majority have become ingrained to depend on the government to protect them from all that could be evil.

I have been to rural NY state and it is as nice a country as there is, same with many of the rural areas of CA. In both areas, the majority of people are as fine as you will find anywhere. That all changes when you go to their cities. Show me a city with a million or more people and I will show you a lot more problems than just stupid gun laws.

Thing is I don't see much hope for them unless there is a major change in the take care of me and make the world all kind and fuzzy attitude of the majority of their citizens. Their trying to create utopias has been a major fail.

 

[glowe]

some of us arent cut and run type of guys as apparantly you are. its my home, i grew up here,i'll fight here until there is no hope left. as of right now the light is still burning. by the way is that y'all a southern maine accent?

I believe this section should be all about freedom. People should have the right to buy, own, and sell in any manner they feel comfortable. If ammo and firearms manufacturers are fleeing NY and CA, something very ominous is going on and I think the issues are more serious than residents of those states realize.

I believe that we are all supporting the freedoms offered by the Second Amendment and that should translate as to how gun owners dispose of their guns. There may be paranoia and distrust out there, but the biggest distrust should remain with the governing bodies of these 2 states. I have no doubts that these states are just looking for case law issues to bring to the courts to show their citizens how diligent they are and I do not want to become involved in a lynch mob in either state.

Lastly, this is not a Forum to carry out personal attacks and those who feel the need to do that - take it elsewhere!

 

[HeyJoe]

of course people have the right to dispose of their guns to whoever or where ever they choose. we also have the right to be critical of those decisions when they are based on misinformation and paranoia. i for one am tired of move to a free state comments, especially from a state that has the two anti second amendment senators that maine does. might want to right your own ship there.

 

[bigl1911]

Selling a gun to a CA resident adds 4 or 5 minutes to my shipping process.

Some dealers seem intimidated by the roster, like they can't look up a particular model and determine if it is actually on the list.
Time elapsed, maybe 90 seconds.

Others seem to feel intimidated by the shipment approval process. No big deal- I login, fill in a few blanks, and print 2 copies of each approval. One for me, one for the receiving dealer.
Time elapsed, maybe 2-3 minutes.

If that is too complicated for a dealer, maybe he should not be selling real guns.

It would surprise you how many dealers refuse to ship into Cali... It amazes me really...

 

[bigl1911]

Y'all might be better advised to get your shop in order and then keep it that way, rather than complain about how badly you are treated by the free market.
Or move to a free state.

Oberon - A person has the right to conduct their business as they wish. I started the thread mainly to say don't abandon your gun owners living here in Cali. We are all in this one together regardless of the differences in our background or have we run our businesses. This is a national problem and if we do not stop this here and now there is not telling where it will go... What in essence is happening in Cali is a deliberate gun ban. We get ahead of it but there are the one step forward and two back sometimes... I say thanks to group like Calguns that clearly works hard to protect our right to own a firearm. I say thank you to you as well for adding to the thread. I do ask you if you do not ship to Cali, respectfully reconsider doing business with us here in the blue state.. We need your support...

 

[bigl1911]

I do feel for those who are trying to carry the torch in CA. Not their fault, it is a case of sever case of what happens with an uneducated democracy where the majority have become ingrained to depend on the government to protect them from all that could be evil.

I have been to rural NY state and it is as nice a country as there is, same with many of the rural areas of CA. In both areas, the majority of people are as fine as you will find anywhere. That all changes when you go to their cities. Show me a city with a million or more people and I will show you a lot more problems than just stupid gun laws.

Thing is I don't see much hope for them unless there is a major change in the take care of me and make the world all kind and fuzzy attitude of the majority of their citizens. Their trying to create utopias has been a major fail.

It is mostly about regulatory agencies that are unregulated without checks and boundaries. It happens all across the country. The other side is there is nothing more American than a Colt SAA or a 1911... Or a Winchester 94 and so many others.. Not even Apple Pie is more America than a Peacemaker... It is who we are..

Yes, it is true most look to the government to help them solve these big questionable problems like stopping gun violence right up to the point where their rights are taken away when a government agency targets their swimming pool or backyard because some A hole decided there is a freakin snail that is in danger and someone decided their home is an environmentally sensitive area for no good reason... The truth is these types think one less home we have saved the environment like one less gun and the world is a safer place...

Some people don't like guns right up until they are invaded at home and threaten or beaten to the edge or worse.. Then all of a sudden having a gun at home isn't a bad thing... I could go on but I think the point is clear...

 

[bigl1911]

I believe this section should be all about freedom. People should have the right to buy, own, and sell in any manner they feel comfortable. If ammo and firearms manufacturers are fleeing NY and CA, something very ominous is going on and I think the issues are more serious than residents of those states realize.

I believe that we are all supporting the freedoms offered by the Second Amendment and that should translate as to how gun owners dispose of their guns. There may be paranoia and distrust out there, but the biggest distrust should remain with the governing bodies of these 2 states. I have no doubts that these states are just looking for case law issues to bring to the courts to show their citizens how diligent they are and I do not want to become involved in a lynch mob in either state.

Lastly, this is not a Forum to carry out personal attacks and those who feel the need to do that - take it elsewhere!

I don't think freedom has ever been a G-d given right and we have to stand up for these rights. The two States in question are not the only States that have taken a personal freedom starting with Jim Crow (I know - no politics but it is still true). My thought is Ruger and Smith have not walked from the market. They are simply saying the microstamping requirements are not something any manufacturer can comply with as an unproven technology. Actually I find it interesting LEO is exempt from using microstamping firearms. Hummm...

In addition, the manufacturer needs to make profit not add foolish requirements that are not proven to be of benefit on any level for the community. They clearly refuse to chase an idea is my thought. I hope it isn't about abandoning the State. I suppose the issue is really about how far the 2nd Amendment extends.. The only real objection any gun owner should have when selling to the State of Cali is the need to identify themselves as the seller as a requirement for the transaction. In other words, all handguns sold to a Cali resident require a default registration. I suppose this is an answer to my original question why a gun owner will not conduct business with a Cali resident if he/she wants to remain anonymous.

 

[LoboGunLeather]

When the inevitable collapse occurs in California, when the taxes and fees and government regulations have driven nearly all employers to other states, when state and local governments cease to function due to bankruptcy, when the incredible range of benefits are no longer paid, when societal order is replaced by chaos and mob action, then the people of California will need the means for self defense more than ever before.

Wise and thoughtful Californians will probably have already made sure that they have what they will need for a chance at survival. Many others will simply continue crying for social justice and government assistance. Life in California will become a Darwinian process, and do so rather more quickly than many will be able to foresee or comprehend.

Those who share the vision of perfecting society and mankind are oblivious to the realities. There will be much crying and moaning, many pleas for rescue and humanitarian aid, but the results will be defined as the survival of the fittest.

You may have noticed that I have used the word "when" repeatedly, but have not included a single "if". That was intentional, as I really see no other possible alternative.

And California will probably be only one of the first places where this takes place.

There really isn't a cure for stupid.

 

[PA Guns & Ammo]

What about used handguns to California? Can they be sold? I was under the assumption that if the handgun is not on the list, you can not sell it to someone in California if you are not a resident there. So what is the scoop?

 

[bigl1911]

What about used handguns to California? Can they be sold? I was under the assumption that if the handgun is not on the list, you can not sell it to someone in California if you are not a resident there. So what is the scoop?

Srv,

For handguns there are only three categories that are legal for import:

1. All handguns listed and current on the California Roster of Guns…
a. Taking the Colt Python as an example there is only one Model - 13060CS. This is the only models built within the last 50 years on Roster..
2. All Curio and Relics (with the exception of specifically banned firearms)..
a. This includes all listed firearms on BATF list (some are current and not on the Cali Roster – Example a Colt National Match any year including up to 2014 model or a Python Bicentennial model manufactured 1976 or for Smith any all K32 and note a 66 is not legal but a 66 in certain flavors commemorative BATF 1983 is legal as a c/r).. Stupid right?
b. Any handgun older than 50 years..
i. The Python as an example is any model 1964 (3) or earlier at this point..
3. Any handgun converted to a single shot – generally any handgun with barrel length not less than 3 inches and a 5 shot capacity..

Interesting read on the subject from Calguns:

Single Shot Exemption Explanation/Database Thread - Calguns.net

 

[Leonard]

Years ago a police chief from a town in California wanted to buy an approved auto that I had on Gun Broker, my local FFL refused to ship to the state as retribution for there onerous gun laws. Was a real problem until I spoke with the receiving FFL a California gun shop which agreed to accept a direct shipment from me. Bottom line is the local shop made nothing and lost a customer.