Curious: Why not sell to anti-2A states?

[pawngal]

To say that California's gun laws are strange is well known.
For a FFL to ship into California, they have to register with the State, doesn't matter that the FFL already has a Federal License, and then get a Firearms Shipment Approval number from DOJ, for any gun shipped. 3 guns, 3 letters. It is automated and easy but, my view, it is purely there to frustrate the 'import' of guns into the State.
If it is On Roster, is not banned outright, has the wrong dash or feature then all is good; if not, then the fun begins - all between the FFL's.
Yes, it is up to the buyer to make sure of these things but I am sure that a seller, once burned, will just say "no sale to California" to make their life easier.
There is more to this but space is short and time is valuable; just know that life behind the wire is complicated for gun owners.

As an FFL, I've jumped through the hoops to ship to CA a couple of times, as stated above, it is PITA. Doubt I'd do it again.

 

[chuckie]

In Mass. the then attorney general, threatened out of state sellers and dealers with lawsuits and large fines for selling firearms to Mass. residents. The excuse she used was the persons LTC couldn't be verified.

 

[MelvinWalker]

Seems to be no good answer for leaving out part of the serial numbers. This has been asked here before. Always no definitive answers, but much speculation. Probably a lot of paranoia involved in many cases.

Like the people with bail out kits by every door, I was curious where they were going to bail out to. No one really knew.

Many people do not list full serial number as it is thought it allows a potential thief to get the serial number, report the gun "stolen", wait a few weeks and then turn the police onto the seller as a possible lead.

 

[smoothshooter]

Several states have a real patchwork of laws that makes it difficult to make sure you are in compliance. With Bidens No Tolerance policy, you make any mistake and you will lose your FFL. Thats the good news. May also end up in jail. Basically most hobby dealers don't want to deal with all the hassle.

Taking the time to spend an hour or more researching Lefty state gun laws before shipping is more hassle than it’s worth when a sale to a local or gun friendly state customer can be wrapped up in a few minutes.
Those people living in problem states have made their choice on what’s important to them.
If they don’t like it they should move. Or just suck it up.

 

[coltle6920]

Hell, I tried to order a holster from Amazon and they wouldn’t ship it here even though holsters aren’t illegal anywhere here.

That's ridiculous. Before the high capacity mag restriction went into effect I ordered 8-30rd mags from some company and they refused to ship because of my Denver address.

With nothing to lose I reordered and gave a friends address up in Wellington,CO. to ship to. Got the mags in 3 days.

Complete idiots!!!

 

[Sevens]

With regards to serial numbers, we make use of them on this site quite obviously, often to try to nail down a particular time of production or perhaps shipment… sometimes for newer examples we can use them to better identify a variation or engineering change. For these goals, placing x’s for the last two or three digits does nothing negative to the goal of dating, identifying or classifying, but it surely does rattle the cages of different Fudds and yokels. They quickly trot out gems such as “paranoia” and “big brother.”

ATF knocked on my door last night! - The Firing Line Forums

This is a discussion from 2009, and this is when I formed my own opinion of posting serial numbers on an open forum.

Certainly I understand that some long time posters here are actually former Government agents. I would like to think that they held themselves to a standard in their careers and I would hope the same for current Government agents who might be here as well.

From my view, I don’t care to have any Government agents visiting my home for any reason. I felt that way back in 2009. I can say that I do not hold a higher opinion of Government agencies today in 2024 than I did 15 years ago, but perhaps some Fudds do. I can respect their position but I have precious little respect when they try to paint some of us as paranoid because it appears they don’t respect our position on the same matter.

A regular working class stiff like me will NEVER truly know the inner workings of US Federal “alphabet” agencies but it doesn’t take a rocket surgeon to imagine that their power and corruption are greater today than a decade and a half ago, especially when you consider the cabal of puppet masters that drive them from the top.

 

[Bald1]

SEVENS, it seems like there’s always more to the story. I wonder how ATF came to know about individual in thread sellingGUNS ( plural)? How many can a person sell before needing a license? Lots of questions

 

[venomballistics]

Fleet farm is currently being sued by the state of Minnesota over firearm sales.....
Why should anyone incur the risk?

 

[rockquarry]

With regards to serial numbers, we make use of them on this site quite obviously, often to try to nail down a particular time of production or perhaps shipment… sometimes for newer examples we can use them to better identify a variation or engineering change. For these goals, placing x’s for the last two or three digits does nothing negative to the goal of dating, identifying or classifying, but it surely does rattle the cages of different Fudds and yokels. They quickly trot out gems such as “paranoia” and “big brother.”

ATF knocked on my door last night! - The Firing Line Forums

This is a discussion from 2009, and this is when I formed my own opinion of posting serial numbers on an open forum.

Certainly I understand that some long time posters here are actually former Government agents. I would like to think that they held themselves to a standard in their careers and I would hope the same for current Government agents who might be here as well.

From my view, I don’t care to have any Government agents visiting my home for any reason. I felt that way back in 2009. I can say that I do not hold a higher opinion of Government agencies today in 2024 than I did 15 years ago, but perhaps some Fudds do. I can respect their position but I have precious little respect when they try to paint some of us as paranoid because it appears they don’t respect our position on the same matter.

A regular working class stiff like me will NEVER truly know the inner workings of US Federal “alphabet” agencies but it doesn’t take a rocket surgeon to imagine that their power and corruption are greater today than a decade and a half ago, especially when you consider the cabal of puppet masters that drive them from the top.

I s a "fudd" just a not-so-bright guy like the Elmer Fudd cartoon character? It seems like that would be the true definition unless the recent use of the term was coined by someone who didn't grow up in the Elmer Fudd era and is more YouTube inclined.

 

[Dreadi]

FFL 07/02 here. Some of us do not want to register with the CA DOJ as outlined at the link below.

Frequently Asked Questions | State of California - Department of Justice - Office of the Attorney General

 

[LVSteve]

I s a "fudd" just a not-so-bright guy like the Elmer Fudd cartoon character? It seems like that would be the true definition unless the recent use of the term was coined by someone who didn't grow up in the Elmer Fudd era and is more YouTube inclined.

Fudds are usually seen as older guys more interested in revolvers and milsurps that modern guns. I would question whether fudds trust government more than any other gun owner.

 

[Jack Flash]

A point that has been missed is that you don't have to actually break the law to be charged with breaking the law.

Some anti-2A states have activist prosecutors that want to make a name for themselves for being tough on gun crimes. A seller could be charged with a crime based on some convoluted interpretation of the law. The seller would be a fool not to seek competent legal counsel. Do lawyers charge an average of $100 an hour now, or is it more?

This could be in a state two or three time zones away. If the seller has to appear in court that could get expensive in time and money.

Even if charges are dropped or the seller acquitted, he could wind up penniless. That's why so many of them say "No Way!"

 

[djohns6]

I don't post serial numbers because I want as few guns as possible that are traceable to me . In other words , what the .Gov doesn't know won't hurt me , Nobody including my wife knows how many guns I own . I have absolutely NO fear of somebody filing a false Police report of a stolen gun , etc. It makes no sense but some folks just don't think things through .

 

[smithra_66]

I notice that many sellers specifically state that they will not sell to Cali and a few other states that are anti 2A. Is there a danger of the gun getting "lost" in shipment, extra paperwork or another reason? Just curious since there are a lot of avid shooters/collectors in these states and I hate to see them denied access to the hobby.
And why do we often put xxx's for the last digits of our serial numbers when talking firearms online? (I usually do it b/c everybody else seems to, but I don't know why.)
Ed

Probably just trying to avoid all the extra BS associated with trying to sell to anti-freedom states, as opposed to free states.

 

[Ματθιας]

Fudds are the guys who can't/won't/don't see the others owning anything other than old school firearms and "assault weapons" and their hi-cap magazines are bad as in no one should own them except the .gov. Black and polymer guns are no-no, for them.

They claim to be 2A but, truth be told, as long as they get to keep their "deer guns" and revolvers, they don't care about what anti-gun laws are passed.

There are a number of them on this very forum.

 

[Puller]

The juice ain't worth the squeeze dealing with people in blue states.

 

[rockquarry]

Fudds are the guys who can't/won't/don't see the others owning anything other than old school firearms and "assault weapons" and their hi-cap magazines are bad as in no one should own them except the .gov. Black and polymer guns are no-no, for them.

They claim to be 2A but, truth be told, as long as they get to keep their "deer guns" and revolvers, they don't care about what anti-gun laws are passed.

There are a number of them on this very forum.

Apparently more than one defintion for "fudds"; no one seems to know for sure. You're assuming a lot in your accusations. I hope the numbers of such persons on this forum are far smaller than what you imply. I'm pretty they are. Hardly worth arguing.

 

[Ματθιας]

Apparently more than one defintion for "fudds"; no one seems to know for sure. You're assuming a lot in your accusations. I hope the numbers of such persons on this forum are far smaller than what you imply. I'm pretty they are. Hardly worth arguing.

I know who/what a Fudd is.

These are observations not accusations. All you have to do is look at who is saying what and apply what I'm saying, it then becomes glaringly, hilariously, obvious.

 

[Sevens]

You're assuming a lot in your accusations.

Says the guy who claims:

This has been asked here before. Always no definitive answers, but much speculation. Probably a lot of paranoia involved in many cases.

And I’ve answered it before… but your default is “paranoia.” Just like anyone that has a bag of gear packed.

I have a spare tire in the trunk and a fire extinguisher under the sink, in the garage and near the clothes dryer too BUT DON’T TELL ANYONE!!!

 

[MelvinWalker]

I have a spare tire in the trunk and a fire extinguisher under the sink, in the garage and near the clothes dryer too BUT DON’T TELL ANYONE!!!

Remember the saying..."Just because you are paranoid, doesn't mean they're not out to get you"