Serious question about China

[JJEH]

I think the main problem lies in the US companies chasing the lowest cost and highest profit that the consumer will tolerate. Easy to blame China but all the products they build are built to the specifications and tolerances that the US companies contract for.

I think that hits the nail on the head. We the people have more power than we think, we just have to unite and work together.

It's a convenient lifestyle... we really don't have supply issues. We just expect to go to the store (any store) and get food and products we need/want.

The majority is not prepared when one of those supply lines breaks... hence the most recent panic buying.

So I can see where they come from.... we need to feed the masses, plus we need to make enough product for everyone to get it cheap. Unfortunately the quality will suffer but since we want it now and cheap we are willing to sacrifice.

I agree, we need to bring major manufacturing back, incl pharma. But we all know it won't happen.... too many pockets are being filled by leaving it as is

 

[Camster]

There was a time when I sold Sharp cash registers. Initially, they were made in Japan, then production went to China, and Korea after that. I could see no difference in quality.

 

[gregintenn]

General Tao's Chicken ain't bad.

 

[Leonard]

We moved production to China when trade barriers were lifted with their induction into the G8, and business leaders realized that more profit could be made by using Chinese labor.

The net effect is a pooling of profit at the higher echelons of American business, and the loss of manufacturing in the middle class, thereby reducing its size and purchasing power.


This part I agree, corporate America benefits, and we have created a monster.

 

[wheelgun28]

As other have said China can make good items. I have been in several factories in China that made good products. It is a different environment and the workers seem to have a different attitude toward work.

A few stories;
One large factory I was in, located in central China. More or less typical place with a large dormitory and lots of square footage of floor space. The had a big banner in English that said "Work hard today or tommorw you will be working harder looking for a new job"

A company wanted an item made, they went to different manufacturers to get quotes. They were all around said $2.00 each and would make a decent item. The company didnt like that they said we only want to spend $.50 each. Most bidders dropped out saying that it was unrealistic at that price. However, two were hungry and wanted the work desperately. The buyer played them against each other and got them even lower per unit, about $.35 each. What the factory guys can't figure out is why someone would want to buy the biggest piece of junk. Now they try to make them, even with the cheapest materials and every short cut that can be had, its not profitable. In short order, the manufacturer goes out of business. In this story whos the biggest loser? The person that buys that product here in the USA at full price. I was told this story and told it happened many times. I did fudge the actual numbers as I dont recall them if they were true when I was told the story.

 

[TX-Dennis]

Several years ago I attended a presentation by a manufacturer of Christmas lights. He stated that Chinese labor had gotten too expensive, so now they were moving production to places like Thailand, Malaysia, and Vietnam.

 

[LCC]

A friend is a quality control engineer who has spent most of the last decade working in China to improve high tech production plants.
His viewpoint is China is excellent at pricepoint manufacturing and bad at innovation and creativity (what you get with an authoritarian regime), which is why China is constantly hacking and ripping off our Intellectual Property at every possible opportunity, as well as everyone else's.
China is our most challenging economic threat, and as they continue stealing land in the South Pacific, building up their nuke sub fleet, and buying corrupt governments in Africa, they will sooner rather than later become a primary military adversary as well.

 

[docjonson]

China has different grades.of quality evidenced by Harbour Freights Bauer brand of tools. They are copies of tools mfg. in the UK but are made by Lutool, a Chinese company. Most are just not willing to pay the price unless they require quality tools or products to work witb.

 

[Ματθιας]

They sure know how to make people. As to missiles and rockets, didn't Clinton give this information to them so they were able to catch up with us?

Look up "Chinagate." Hefty bags full of cash in exchange for technology from Loral Space and Hughes Electronics - that helped them deliver a nuke to us. That particular admin also lifted restrictions on technology. We were sold out.

 

[DeathGrip]

My limited memory, Drywall and Dog Treats.

That's some pretty basic stuff but let China make it for you and look what happens.

Should we really trust them with our drugs?

 

[pharmer]

China makes "drug bases" like croscarmellose sodium, crospovidone and several others I forget. Currently a lot of countries let them mix up mostly generics because it is economically advantageous. It would take a week to bring back manufacture to the US and the Chinese could sell us the bases or we start making drugs from the ground up. Business is business, crush the commies. Joe

 

[Beemerguy53]

...I miss good American made quality.

Amen to that!

Chinese-made products sold in the USA fall into three categories, in my observation...

First are those items that were made here, those recognizable traditional American brands, whose owners moved production to China...but didn't lower the price. Two examples that come to mind are Cross pens, and Boyt gun cases. American workers lost their jobs, but the owners didn't pass any savings along to consumers. I won't buy their products if I can possibly avoid it.

The second group are companies that shifted production to China, and lowered the prices of their products sold here. Craftsman tools fall into that category, near as I can tell. The last time I looked at them, they were far less expensive than I remembered. (I have all the tools I could ever need, and thus haven't bought any in years.)

The third made-in-China group is interesting...they're things that were invented because we started trading with China. A good example of this are the extremely detailed 1/18th scale model cars, from companies such as Exoto and CMC. The market for these models was created because lower Chinese labor costs made mass production of these goods, and their sale in the USA, possible. I can't imagine what the cars pictured below would cost if an American worker built them.

I don't mind buying foreign-made products...if there is no alternative. But in general, I place a premium on things made in the USA, and I don't mind paying a little more for them.

 

[Rastoff]

It's my experience "Chinese junk" no longer refers to a type of ship. They are plenty smart enough they could build good products but don't for above reasons. Mexican quality doesn't impress me either but is still superior in quality. I miss good American made quality.

I miss American made quality too.

There was a time when being made in the USA was synonymous with quality. Not any more. Cars are a good example. In the 70s American cars were just mediocre. Japan started to make a name for themselves because their cars were far superior in quality and longevity.

Times are changing and American cars are getting better, but we've still got a long way to go. As it stands now, I'll take my Toyota truck over any US truck. I hope I'm proven wrong one day.

 

[DeathGrip]

It's curious that I see more American cars from the '70s and '80s still on the road than Toyotas etc. from the same period.

I'd like to see the numbers but I know what I see.

Then again, I wouldn't want to restore a Corolla.

 

[Ματθιας]

It's curious that I see more American cars from the '70s and '80s still on the road than Toyotas etc. from the same period.

I'd like to see the numbers but I know what I see.

Then again, I wouldn't want to restore a Corolla.

I agree. It's not uncommon to see 70s/80s American Iron on the road as daily drivers.

The oldest toyotas I've seen as drivers are Camrys from the early 90s. Honda's that old are non-existent.

Trucks, Tacomas, yes, Pre 1993 trucks extremely rare. 1990s and older 4Runners, non-existent. Land Cruisers - unicorns. Very rarely are Nissan trucks from that time are ever seen on the road. And no rust didn't get them.

I'll see burbans blazers and broncos drving around, though!

BMW's over 10 years old are hardly ever seen. So much for the "ultimate driving machine".

 

[Rastoff]

Is it that you see more old American cars or that you notice more old American cars? Not saying your wrong, just a curiosity.

Still, I don't think your that far off. Maybe it's just that people like the old American cars so they put more effort into keeping them.

Around here it's rare to see any car/truck 10 years or more old unless it's a classic.

Also, I don't see any 70s cars here used as daily drivers. They're kept as keepsakes or for shows, but not daily drivers.

From personal experience, I get in my Toyota with 200K on the clock and it just works. Every American car I've had required constant maintenance. I put over 280K on a Subaru. At 190K I had to replace the engine in a Jeep.

Lots of Mini Coopers here. They're made by BMW and I see lots of them that are much older than 10 years. But those are German cars.

 

[Ματθιας]

To be fair a lot of the 70s-80s drivers are beaters or works in progress.

I live in the older/poorer part of town so I regularly see a lot of older vehicles. I like old stuff and I worked at Toyota and Honda in that era so I look for them, too.

Personal experience. My drivers are a 1970s F-150 - it's not a beater - and a late 1990s Crown Vic. Yes, they do require regular maintenance, I use the severe service schedule, but if something goes wrong, I can probably fix it on the side of the road - provided it's not some silly sensor on the CV.

Do you regularly see any foreign cars older than 25 years on the road?

 

[DeathGrip]

It's rare to see a Japanese that's been restored but it happens and believe me I notice them.

I'd love to have a Datsun 240Z or the little 1600 roadster and once in a while I see one.

 

[Rastoff]

Do you regularly see any foreign cars older than 25 years on the road?

I do, but it's the same as what you're seeing with American cars. Either the car is a beater or it's a restored/modified car like a Supra or Mazda RX8 like that.

ETA: I guess I should point out that I never see Chinese cars of any age.

 

[Golddollar]

One issue I am coming across is diminished repair parts availability. I had a 2008 Mercury Grand Marquis that I bought new that had 238,000 miles on it. The dealership that services my car noticed that a necessary part for the operation of the instrument panel was getting "tired." As a good service, the service department called all over the country trying to find the part for me and could not find one in the entire country. Luckily I wasn't in a situation where I had a non-functional car and I put it through the local auto auction.

But those big old land yachts still have some appeal. A dealer from Baltimore came up after the live auction and bought my car. The auction house said that a lot of Baltimore dealers come up to buy the big Mercury Grand Marquises and Lincoln Town Cars.