Shady Dealings In The Gun World

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Recently several things have happened with guns that I once owned.

Earlier this year I bought a 1938 dated S/42 Luger with one matching mag, WW2 Holster and 2 copies of a GI Bring Back Ceritifcate. The gun was abut 80 to 85 percent. I wound up selling it off of GB campus. That was in February or so..It was a break even deal for me on the gun. .

In June the buyer put it back up on GB..only this time he DOCTORED the GI Bring Back Certificates to include another pistol that he had. A FN 32 with Nazi proofs. Several people e-mailed me stating he put the gun back up for sale and that he was committing fraud by adding information to the Certificates. This caused me to drop the dime on him to GB. GB to their credit cancled the auction. However I still think the seller is on GB. I have not checked.


Second gun was a Carlos Gove of Denver City Percussion Plains Rifle. I bought that gun in late 2004 out of an estate in Missouri. Gove is a rather famous Western figure, he was an Indian Agent, Mayor of Denver, Crack Shot, Expert rifle maker. George Schoyen apprenticed with him and JP Lower was in business with him. So a pretty rare combination overall. The rifle was in pretty poor shape with a contemporary replacement percussion lock. I wound up giving it to John Gangle to auction. I cleared 3 times my money, which in the scheme of things wasn't a whole lot.

Well guess what I noticed the same rifle was put up in a Greg Martin Auction this June with an estimate of 9500 to 12500. Only this time it had a period replacment lock, wire wrapped around the barrel and wrist of the rifle. Along with some Indian tacks. The description also stated that it came from an old western estate. It was a "didn't meet reserve" at $7500.

It just make ya think ya gotta be carefull out there. .
 
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Sounds like y`all maken a good liveing off that gun! Seriously, the aspect of the permission slip I havent seen used before. Does that enhance price? I went through my uncles stuff when he died as I was about the only heir that cared, and found a slip or permission slip for about 4 guns that he brought back. I suppose things wouldnt be pushed on enemy guns like lugers etc, but what about the 1911,s ? We all know there must be a million out there without permission slips or some kind of bill of sale!
 
I would imagine that over the years most of the GI Cetificates got lost..they were for the LOOT the GIs picked up in Europe during the war...Cameras, Knives, Guns..

I would say it adds 10% to the value..

A gun is what it is, no matter what extras you want to throw in. I won't even pay much for a box, it is a nice feature if it is orginal to the gun.

Sometimes I think Luger collectors are nutz when they pay 50% to 75% premiums for 2 matching number magazines...

If one looks hard enough one could probably find a matching mag for their pistol.

The same with most boxes, if one looks hard enough one and has the dinero one can find that box.

For me it just makes a package a bit nicer. The guns I do have boxes for just happened to come that way..I mostly just look for good clean examples and if that day I see what I am looking for and it has a box, or I stumble upon a gun with a box well it goes in the safe.
 
It just make ya think ya gotta be carefull out there. .[/QUOTE said:
That type of stuff is par for the course. Some of the biggest and well known names in the business are into that.

I had one tell me in all seriousness that with regard to upgrading guns and selling as original ....that he was just giving the collectors what they wanted. Since the supply of exc. cond originals is so limited in the high grades, he said he was actually doing a service of sorts.
Big money can make rationalizing like that easy for some folks I guess.
 
tabs - sad to say but the shadiness is all around us..........not just in the gun world. It's been happening with collector cars, coins/stamps/papermoney, antiques, any collectible that has the potential for value. Nazi stuff is the worst..........go to any Military show and talk to the Dealers. It's amazing how many items on the tables have actually been used by Hitler himself!
 
That type of stuff is par for the course. Some of the biggest and well known names in the business are into that.

I had one tell me in all seriousness that with regard to upgrading guns and selling as original ....that he was just giving the collectors what they wanted. Since the supply of exc. cond originals is so limited in the high grades, he said he was actually doing a service of sorts.
Big money can make rationalizing like that easy for some folks I guess.

Ahh yes Parkers, LC Smith, Fox, Winchesters and Colts....

I bought a postwar S&W mdl 1926 in 45 LC....rare gun...I got it, looked it over and there was just a hint of a ripple on the right side of the frame...I looked that gun over and over and over again..I compared it to other Smiths of the same vintage..Finially I saw just a couple fo spots of pitting just below the hinge of the Crane (on the frame)..Yep refinish..but it was so good I could hardly tell.

Gale Morgan, can make any kind of Luger you want and so well even an expert can not tell. To my knowledge Gale is a straight shooter.

I have always been a dumpster diver..so most of this knd of stuff bypasses me.
 
It's amazing how many items on the tables have actually been used by Hitler himself!
I got Hiter's cell phone !!!--Really!!!
 
I still get a kick outta the prices and descriptions of S&Ws on GB being sold by the guy in Oregon. Always good for a laugh.
 
well i ran across an obvious idiot who was selling a 'rare' 642, he said this 642 was a very rare black finish, and the darndest thing was you could see the 442 stamp, when I informed him of this he quickly closed and corrected the auction with the new model # and the corrected price
 
It boils down to ,either you are honest or you are not. I always try to do business with people I know such as other members of the forum or selected collector shops such as Trail Creek in St. Louis. They are honest to a fault.
 
It boils down to ,either you are honest or you are not. I always try to do business with people I know such as other members of the forum or selected collector shops such as Trail Creek in St. Louis. They are honest to a fault.

well don't forget clause #3 the uneducated ones
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milton View Post
It's amazing how many items on the tables have actually been used by Hitler himself!
I got Hiter's cell phone !!!--Really!!!
Big Deal-I've got his Ipod.

So.

I've got his Michael Jackson funeral ticket.


There was a recent GunBroker auction of a Colt Banker's Special with a serial number from 1917. Only problem is, they weren't making Banker's Specials in 1917, a model which came along about 10 years later. The barrel on the mongrel was a post WWII replacement.
 
Yeah, too bad, but as mentioned before, this stuff is nothing new. Especially in collector cars. I was into muscle cars big time years ago, and a good friend and high dollar collector and restorer told me that he knew for a fact there are three times more fuel injected 1957 chevys out there than the factory made.

Buyer beware.
 
I guess this will tell U who I am. I bought a Sedgley Highwall in 22H, beautiful custom gun every bit the quality of G&H. However it was refurbished to this state, so it wasn't an orginal Sedgley anymore.. Paid $4100 for it. Listed it in the Gun List. Had one caller, a older guy in Pennsylvania, in the conversation I told him it was refurbished so he passed. That was my one and only caller in a year. Sold it at auction for $2600.

However I was recently able to pick up a super nice Browning B125 C Grade Superlight 12 GA for $2300.00 with the money. Last list on that gun was $5300. So I guess I made up for my error.
 
Yeah, too bad, but as mentioned before, this stuff is nothing new. Especially in collector cars. I was into muscle cars big time years ago, and a good friend and high dollar collector and restorer told me that he knew for a fact there are three times more fuel injected 1957 chevys out there than the factory made.

Buyer beware.

I was at a large well attended show where two of the same identicle high grade shotgun were displayed,,identicle even to the same serial number. Both owners claimed theirs was the original of course. I personally didn't think either was the original...
 
I saw Elvis and MJ on the Strip the other day, they are planning a comeback tour.
 
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