Shield 40 Mishap

Well.....I've been watching this thread from the beginning. I posted a rather long reply with my thoughts. I've given every post here thoughtful consideration and feel everyone here has made very valid points.

I am a devoted Smith, Glock and Ruger fan and end user. My service needs with all three have been nothing less than stellar. My son had a pitted M&P 45 dark earth slide that was replaced in 10 days. Ruger by far has had the best service of all.{in my experience}.

I believe the op here completely. I do wonder what Smith is up to.

I most certainly hope the op gets his problem resolved. I still feel as I did before, Smith should make this right whether Federal is included or not.

I am not a business owner, but I feel strongly that Smith should not want an issue like this going un-resolved.

There is the issue of the gun in question being owned by the op with no mention of Smith having the legal right to retain it with out a new gun or cash being offered.

Lets all hope Smith and/or Federal gets with it and soon.
 
mrasgt said:
I most certainly hope the op gets his problem resolved. I still feel as I did before, Smith should make this right whether Federal is included or not.

I am not a business owner, but I feel strongly that Smith should not want an issue like this going un-resolved.
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See, this is where points of view are different. I'm sure that S&W believes that this has been resolved. They examined the gun, found it to be not defective and then went above and beyond by offering a new gun at cost. At least I'm sure that's how they see it.

Looking at it from their point of view, what more should they do to make it right?
 
As a former business manager I personally would have replaced the gun and nipped this whole ordeal in the bud. We cannot be 100% certain who is at fault, but when running a business, perception is everything. I would rather take care of a customer and build brand loyalty as opposed to tell the customer "sorry about your luck" and paint myself in a negative light.

Offering to sell the customer another one of my products---after I didn't stand behind the first one---is the last thing I would do to make a situation right. But that's just me, and I don't run S&W.
 
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Stinger083,
What you say makes sense. On the surface it sounds like the cheapest solution. But, would giving a new gun be an admission of guilt? If so, it might not be anything in this case, but could cause trouble for them in the future?

Just curious if that's their thought process.
 
exactly my thoughts, as it's not like S&W hasn't replaced many a gun. I have personally seen several threads here where just that was the outcome. But hey, it seems some people responding here seem to know a lot more about the situation than I... since they are able to come to a conclusion.. surely, they haven't determined the outcome by what has been posted here..
 
turbo38gn said:
exactly my thoughts, as it's not like S&W hasn't replaced many a gun. I have personally seen several threads here where just that was the outcome. But hey, it seems some people responding here seem to know a lot more about the situation than I... since they are able to come to a conclusion.. surely, they haven't determined the outcome by what has been posted here..
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Lets be clear here.. No one is saying he should get a free gun if Smith is not at fault. The problem is the lack of communication and service for an extended amount of time. While no one expects smith to work miracles when they are back logged, they certainly do not warrant an infinite amount of time to resolve the issue one way or another.

If I go to a restaurant and the service is bad I am not the type to call over the manager and state that. I just wont eat there anymore. However I have been the recipient quite a few times where the manager recognized as much and made it right whether it was a free meal on the house or an apology to say the least.

He sent the gun in in October. He still doesn't have that gun or a replacement gun when it wasn't his fault. What he was offered was to buy another gun. Now if he caused this by using reloads that were hot, then Smith would be doing him a favor by offering him another gun at a discounted price.

If that was the only gun I had and relied on it for protection and was without for over three months I would be more than a tad upset with the lack of response from Smith.

Maybe the OP should have just sent the gun to federal first instead of Smith? Would that have resolved this any faster? Would love to have seen what their opinion was if he sent the gun directly to them and had them analyze it.
 
I'm sure it has their attention at this time. I sent my only gun in for inspection, was gone 3 weeks total, came back with a clean bill of health.

3 weeks is not an unreasonable amount of time, but that 3 weeks made me buy a 2nd gun. Now, if I had this type of issue, I would want it resolved ASAP, but I'm still covered by #2. (It was a tense 3 weeks).


Twisted87 said:
If that was the only gun I had and relied on it for protection and was without for over three months I would be more than a tad upset with the lack of response from Smith.
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Well Folks I got the call today. Federal called me while I was at work. They said the ammo was reloads. I said wait a minute the cartridge that was in the gun was a reload or all the ammo I sent in was reloads to. He said matter of fact all of it was reloads. He said none of it even had federal primers in it. I said wait a minute you all got them 31 rounds and fully tested them and replied back and said they were all were 100% good. He said yes but after we got the case from Smith we done some further testing and found they were all reloads. I said thats funny I have never had any reloads in my life except the 40 rounds I have now for my Smith AR-15 that a friend loaded up for me. I've never even shot any type of reload for any pistol and I'm 34yrs old. Anyway long story short I guess I'm screwed no matter what now. What else can I do? Any suggestions? I'm posting pics of the ammo as I don't believe I have previously.
1557175_449231908509595_1611052949_o.jpg

1547989_449231955176257_1802980855_o.jpg

1523167_449231975176255_1559433157_o.jpg

1512076_449231995176253_1138777287_o.jpg

1523773_449232061842913_487146750_o.jpg
 
Rastoff said:
Stinger083,
What you say makes sense. On the surface it sounds like the cheapest solution. But, would giving a new gun be an admission of guilt? If so, it might not be anything in this case, but could cause trouble for them in the future?

Just curious if that's their thought process.
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It's funny that you mentioned this because this is exactly what crossed my mind earlier today. Yes, it is entirely possible that the only reason they are unwilling to replace the gun is because it could be viewed as an admission of guilt. BUT, technically, so could offering to replace the gun at cost.

Hard to say. Very unfortunate situation for OP, though.
 
Fishy to say the least. Federal wants to say that in their "testing " process for the other 31 rounds that their rocket scientist didn't notice your "reloaded" primers. What good is a test like that without ATTENTION to detail!!!!!!! What's next?..... They gonna want their free box of .45s back???!!

I'll even go a step further and say.... In general you can clearly tell reloads from factory loaded ammo. There are signs on the case etc,etc. I call BS. They would have noticed the signs if they looked at what they were doing. Did they not pull a bullet and verify the powder they use either? If I was them 1st part of the test process would be to examine the rounds, pull one to verify factory components, then worry about ballistics.

Just my .02. Not sure there is anything you can do from here. Good luck. Let us know if you devise a plan and the outcome.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Genuinely sorry to hear about your situation... that really sucks.

Just a question, though. That's a pretty old box... is it possible that the cartridges were reloads and you just didn't know it? That box looks like it's older than you are... =/
 
I've been reloading since the late 60's. Those aren't the best pics in the world, but from what I can see, those don't look like reloads. Where did you buy the ammo? It obviously is old, but that doesn't make it a reload. $22.97 in 1997 doesn't sound like a reload price to me. Do you have a pic of a full casing? Do they show any signs of being resized? Most reloading tools will slightly flatten the primer. Those all seem to have a factory looking "dome". I'm going to go ahead and call BS on that.
 
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epj said:
I've been reloading since the late 60's. Those aren't the best pics in the world, but from what I can see, those don't look like reloads. Where did you buy the ammo? It obviously is old, but that doesn't make it a reload. $22.97 in 1997 doesn't sound like a reload price to me. Do you have a pic of a full casing? Do they show any signs of being resized? Most reloading tools will slightly flatten the primer. Those all seem to have a factory looking "dome". I'm going to go ahead and call BS on that.
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I've had this ammo for a long time. I don't remember where I got it exactly. From the sticker I'd say it came from the local farm store or like a true value. This is all the pics I took before I sent the ammo in. There is 2 cases somewhere in the field where I fired the other 2 rounds that went off correctly but I cant find them to save my life. Do they really think someone is dumb enough to send in reloads thinking they wouldn't know. This is just the craziest crock of **** that's ever happened to me I think.
 
I will say I have been to gun shows and seen boxes of ammo just like that. Your only hope would be to either locate those missing bullets and attend a show looking for ammo in that box and compare your pics or the missing rounds to the rounds in the box see if they look identical.

The bad thing here is all the evidence is gone besides the gun. Which Smith has not returned I assume.

This really sucks!!

One thing I will say now that I have seen that box of ammo is I have wondered if the ones I have seen at the shows contained reloaded ammo. Vendors can be dishonest sometimes and you have to be careful of that kind of **** happening.
 
Twisted87 said:
I will say I have been to gun shows and seen boxes of ammo just like that. Your only hope would be to either locate those missing bullets and attend a show looking for ammo in that box and compare your pics or the missing rounds to the rounds in the box see if they look identical.

The bad thing here is all the evidence is gone besides the gun. Which Smith has not returned I assume.

This really sucks!!

One thing I will say now that I have seen that box of ammo is I have wondered if the ones I have seen at the shows contained reloaded ammo. Vendors can be dishonest sometimes and you have to be careful of that kind of **** happening.
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Buying ammo at a gun show is one thing I don't do for this very reason. Same reason I don't shoot reloads period in a pistol and especially a 40cal.
 
It appears you are out of options. Ammo is gone and gun is gone.
All you have left is to take S&W up on there offer of a new gun for there price. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.
 
The BOX is 17 years old. A lot of things can happen in 17 years. I can't remember what I did yesterday, much less 17 years ago.

You say you can't remember where you got it from. Could be as simple as somebody giving you the box of ammo years ago that THEY had reloaded. Or giving it to a family member (since you would have been pretty young) and then they later gave it to you or asked if you wanted it.

I was hoping for a better outcome, but it is not looking good.
 
cowboydave said:
It appears you are out of options. Ammo is gone and gun is gone.
All you have left is to take S&W up on there offer of a new gun for there price. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.
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I wouldn't buy a gun from them for $10 after I done paid over $400 for this one.
 
Well 2001gmc you have taught many on here a very valuable lesson. If we are ever faced with the same issue I will certainly make sure I preserve some evidence in case you need to take someone to court.

I don't like how this played out one bit, but with no evidence to back you up its hard to blame Smith at this point when Federal comes back and says it was all reloads.

This all seems very suspicious to me especially when they originally said all the ammo looked good.
 
Wow, I'm stunned that Federal said that. Unfortunately, your only recourse at this point is legal action and we've discussed the futility of that already. If nothing else, I'd be sure to try to get the gun back from S&W.
 
My brother-in-law just got a 40 shield a month ago. He and I went to the range 2 weeks ago to have some fun. Now he only ran 50 rounds through his and it fired flawlessly. I fired a few rounds out of it and wasn't sure I liked it or not. Very snappy and hard to follow up your shots with it.

Now I have a 9c which is my carry weapon and love it, but I loved the thickness of his shield. As many on here have said maybe the 9mm shield is the way to go if your interested in the LCP style guns.

Your pictures do scare me quite a bit that I was really never a fan of the 40's to begin with and this just reinforces it for me.
 
This has been an amazing thread... and tonight...it has gone off the scale in responses... I am stunned is all I can say.... but I guess not surprised. So many experts that know so much from a picture of a 17 year old box... and now this has become a conspiracy and a cover up. The ammo manufacturer confirms bad ammo. and S&W is STILL the bad guy....

WOW, JUST WOW.. HAVE AT IT BOYS, I AM OUT
 
turbo38gn said:
This has been an amazing thread... and tonight...it has gone off the scale in responses... I am stunned is all I can say.... but I guess not surprised. So many experts that know so much from a picture of a 17 year old box... and now this has become a conspiracy and a cover up. The ammo manufacturer confirms bad ammo. and S&W is STILL the bad guy....

WOW, JUST WOW.. HAVE AT IT BOYS, I AM OUT
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Interesting you don't mention he was originally told by Federal all the ammo was fine..

But I can see the sarcasm in your post and it just isn't worth arguing.

This whole thing has been mishandled from the get go. Its now over 3 months and he finally gets told it was a hot load. Smith should have stated that from the get go in 1/2 the time they took.

And Federal should not have told him all the ammo he sent back was to spec.

Hopefully nobody else has to deal with these types of issues in the future.
 
Without knowing where/when the ammo came from, I suspect you don't have any recourse. Buying from a regular store is fairly safe (Though it doesn't preclude a "doctored" return.) Buying from a gun show or a flea market, all bets are off, especially if it's "old" product, or had possibly been taken in trade.

Now, I wouldn't necessarily take Federal's claim that they have to be reloads because they aren't "Federal primers" at face value. I seem to recall a report some time ago that some ammo manufacturers were not only using primers, but cases and bullets from other than their own manufacture or their normal sources due to shortages. (This was more than 10-years ago.) There is also the possibility that whoever did the inspection isn't familiar with any production differences from over 15-years ago.

And lastly, even if all the rounds were otherwise fine, and normal factory production, there is another known failure mode with the .40 S&W, and that is if the bullet gets pushed farther into the case, either by repeated chamberings or other forms of impacts/pushing, which raises the pressure dramatically. This would be fairly easy to miss when loading the magazine. At that point, whose 'fault' would it be? A careful forensic examination of the case might be able to tell if this had been the problem if you were looking for it.

As has been said, with the current reports and lack of further evidence, you're best course is probably to accept the offer by S&W, though you might want to try to negotiate a better deal based upon the long delays and the chance to finish this forum thread with a "more positive note/spin." ;)
 
Wow is all I can say reading through this thread. The OP I feel for, I have a Shield 40. it has been problem free but if this were me I would be seriously pissed. First Federal said everything was fine and now its reloads sounds like a whole lot of BS to me.
 
Kinda sucks for the OP...

He can continue to support S&W and buy their discounted gun. Keep and shoot it or just sell it to try to cut his losses. Another option is to vote with his dollar and go elsewhere for his gun needs.

Brand loyalty only goes so far if you feel the company hasn't handled your issue properly.

I've had adequate dealings with S&W when getting failed gun issues rectified, but sometimes it only takes one bad experience to turn things sour.

Good luck to the OP. let us know what you decide.

Edmo
 
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