Shield out of battery - time to revisit this issue

[Lost Lake]

My Shield will hang out of battery after a press check. I don't like that.

I tried the pull-the-trigger thing and yes it will force the slide forward, but it will NOT fire.

The bump on the slide that pushes the trigger bar out from the sear is what we are rubbing against when we pull the trigger a bit, and if you pull the trigger quickly like you would in a SD action, the trigger bar will not release the sear.

So I thought my Shield was okay but come to find out it is not.

Either I figure out how to fix this or there will be a Shield for sale. There is friction between the extractor and the shell case, the barrel and the slide and the trigger bar and the slide bump. I can't imagine polishing the extractor lip, I can't grind the slide bump, I could polish the barrel I suppose.

Somewhere I need either less friction or more spring.

 

[Fastbolt]

Press checks have always had the potential to create an unfavorable situation of mechanical disadvantage that the recoil spring may not be able to overcome. Happens in all types of semiauto pistols. That's always been one of the issues with safely doing a "press check".

Fortunately, on the later production S&W pistols ... meaning late production 3rd gens, SW1911's and now the M&P series ... a user can utilize the much handier method of looking at the inspection hole in the barrel tab.

I'd not be so quick to blame the gun for a "problem" resulting from a "technique" that's not especially necessary with some of the more modern semiauto pistols, myself.

I grew up handling & shooting 1911's. I'm still an owner/user of 1911's (and an armorer) ... and I was very glad when S&W finally introduced the loaded chamber inspection port. Makes it easier (and safer) to visually check for the presence of a case by seeing the rim.

You'll notice that other gun makers have followed suit by using a similarly positioned hole in the barrel hood tab. I recently saw the maker of another brand of pistols give instructions in the manual for seeing the case of a chambered round through an opening to one side of the barrel, at the extractor, as well.

Then, there's the brands/models that use the "flag" design ... like on some newer Ruger pistols and the XD's imported for Springfield ... which is also apparently available as the CA compliant version of the Shield.

 

[BIGMAC116]

What I do after a press check is make a fist with my off hand and give the slide (the rear of the slide) a little "fist bump" using the blade side of my hand. It's instinct/habit for me.

 

[RobzGuns]

I do not do press checks. No need to, because I know that if the mag is inserted, there IS a round in the chamber.

I've been pocket carrying (with pocket holster, of course) my Shield every day since May 2012 and it has never inadvertently been bumped out of battery. When holstering, my thumb rides on the rear of the slide (a technique I picket up when I was carrying an XDsc), so I wasn't pushing the grip safety when holstering).

 

[kudzu3]

What is a "press check"? Is it something that I need to do with my semi-autos? Please forgive my ignorance.

 

[mcbizkit02]

This doesn't seem like a big deal to me. Press checks are unnecessary anyway.

 

[BIGMAC116]

It's my department policy to press check after an "administrative load"

 

[Fastbolt]

It's my department policy to press check after an "administrative load"

I'm guessing either your duty weapons aren't M&P's and don't allow for an alternative method to visually inspect for a loaded chamber, or else your firearms training unit uses the practice as a "catch-all" method due to their preference? (Or at least someone's preference, as sometimes a technique can become 'locked in' when someone is an adherent of a practice/technique from another time, specific training class, etc.)

Agency policy is what it is, isn't it?

Gotta be careful what becomes formalized by policy, regulation, general order, etc. There's a certain inertia that results from formalizing things that might sometimes be better left "fluid", or perhaps flexible, as equipment design & training methods improve, evolve, etc.

 

[2tango2]

What is a "press check"? Is it something that I need to do with my semi-autos? Please forgive my ignorance.

Yeah what kudzu said.... Press check??

 

[RobzGuns]

What is a "press check"? Is it something that I need to do with my semi-autos? Please forgive my ignorance.

Very Basically... It's 'pressing' the slide back just far enough to 'check' that there is actually a round chambered. The Pop-Up Loaded Chamber Indicator (and View Port) was probably intended to eliminate the need for a Press Check

You'll often see it in TV and Films (the guy behind cover, getting ready for the shootout ).

 

[2tango2]

Oh ok. Heck my XD-S does that when I have a snap cap in there. When I pull the slide back just enough to reset the trigger it needs a bump to go back to full battery

Is this sort of what we are talking about here?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[NucPhysics]

Just to add to what has been described for those needing more info/explanation:

What the Press Check brings to light for some is that a gun may not move back into battery (close all the way) on its own when the slide is pushed backed slightly and then released. If this happens, most guns will not fire (which is better than firing out of battery of course).

The concern is if a gun is bumped or otherwise knocked out of battery in a self defense situation, and the operator doesn't know this has happened, then the gun will not fire when needed.

Some are very concerned and frustrated about this - and I do understand. I myself feel that training is paramount to help deal with some of these types of situations. Some guns do seem to be more prone on doing this. Sometimes breaking a gun in and a replacing the RSA after so many rounds may help keep things in check.

I will leave it to everyone to decide for themselves where they stand on this issue. For myself, my Shield is the only one that doesn't return on its own. My Glocks and my Walther PPQ all return to battery on their own after a press check.

 

[Edmo]

...For myself, my Shield is the only one that doesn't return on its own. My Glocks and my Walther PPQ all return to battery on their own after a press check.

Yes, I'm one of those guys who does a press check. Even though I've got a peep hole in my Shield and a raised extractor on my GLOCKs, I want to see that round.

I've also had good luck with all of my GLOCKs returning to battery after a press check. My Shield just needs a little bump on the back of the slide to make it fully close into battery.

Edmo

 

[MP1SG]

Hi
Essentially what you are doing by conducting a "press Check" is inducing a stoppage. There IS NO need to do a press check because of the Loaded Chamber indicator (Peep Hole). On a revolver I can manually cock the hammer ever so slightly to rotate the cylinder so its "out of battery" But why would i do that? Press checks are just inviting a problem of some kind. Of course if you pull the slide back slightly it may not go into battery. (its dosent happen to my shield 40 or 9). Insert the Magazine, Sling Shot the slide, Check the peep hole and holster your weapon and Charlie Mike (continue to march) . DISCLAIMER: this is all My opinion and my opinion only
Thanks

 

[robkarrob]

This issue has been discussed on this Forum, over and over. The slide will hang out of battery 1/8 to 1/4 inch, if not allowed to slam home, or if the slide is bumped back out of battery, or press checked. The M&P's don't all like to be pressed checked. The sight hole should tell you if you don't know if the chamber is loaded.

The issue is the slide is hanging at the reset tab on the trigger bar and the trigger bar reset bump, in the upper inside of the slide. What seems like a problem is not. When the trigger is pulled, the reset tab passes the bump in the slide. The slide is released and the pressure of the recoil springs pushes the slide back into full battery, before the trigger reaches the break point. This can easily be tested with a fired casing in the chamber. The slide is back to full forward and the barrel in battery, but the trigger needs to be reset. Release the trigger to reset and pull the trigger, should hear the striker release.

Bob

 

[NucPhysics]

I do not perform Press Checks on my Shield. However, the Press Check concept has made me come to the realization that my Shield is somewhat vulnerable to being knocked out of battery and not returning on its own. Knowing this, I would suggest adding this to your training/practice when handling this particular gun.

I still like the shield as my top CCW, but I feel it is important to know this can happen so you can be ready to address it in a stressful or self defense scenario.

 

[josywales]

When some of you say, "add to factor this into your training", what are you saying? Draw from your holster and rack the slide before the first shot??? I'm guessing it's thumbing the slide as you holster it, but....

EDIT: here's thread where the owner says his Shield was out of battery, when he removed it from his pocket. This doesn't sound too good: http://concealedcarryforum.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=34552

 

[supplier]

... Sometimes breaking a gun in and a replacing the RSA after so many rounds may help keep things in check. ...

.

How often recoil spring needs to be replaced on the shield? i hope 3000 rounds it's nothing for M&P series gun...

 

[BIGMAC116]

Even though its built in my muscle memory to press check and bump the slide, my 9c and 40FS always return to battery without the bump. The shield is seems to be a different animal in regards to not returning to battery.

 

[supplier]

I do not perform Press Checks on my Shield. However, the Press Check concept has made me come to the realization that my Shield is somewhat vulnerable to being knocked out of battery and not returning on its own. Knowing this, I would suggest adding this to your training/practice when handling this particular gun.

I still like the shield as my top CCW, but I feel it is important to know this can happen so you can be ready to address it in a stressful or self defense scenario.

One more question please. I never had out of battery situation yet but I carry the gun for less than 2 months and not every day either. If I understood correctly your post to prevent out of battery problem I need:
1. When I holster her - put my thumb on the rear end of the slide.
2. if/when press checked - manually push the slide all way to the front.
3. …..

What other possible situation I need to be aware off, that might lead to "out of battery" situation with Shield? Thanks