Shield out of battery - time to revisit this issue

[Lost Lake]

My Shield will hang out of battery after a press check. I don't like that.

I tried the pull-the-trigger thing and yes it will force the slide forward, but it will NOT fire.

The bump on the slide that pushes the trigger bar out from the sear is what we are rubbing against when we pull the trigger a bit, and if you pull the trigger quickly like you would in a SD action, the trigger bar will not release the sear.

So I thought my Shield was okay but come to find out it is not.

Either I figure out how to fix this or there will be a Shield for sale. There is friction between the extractor and the shell case, the barrel and the slide and the trigger bar and the slide bump. I can't imagine polishing the extractor lip, I can't grind the slide bump, I could polish the barrel I suppose.

Somewhere I need either less friction or more spring.

 

[Fastbolt]

Press checks have always had the potential to create an unfavorable situation of mechanical disadvantage that the recoil spring may not be able to overcome. Happens in all types of semiauto pistols. That's always been one of the issues with safely doing a "press check".

Fortunately, on the later production S&W pistols ... meaning late production 3rd gens, SW1911's and now the M&P series ... a user can utilize the much handier method of looking at the inspection hole in the barrel tab.

I'd not be so quick to blame the gun for a "problem" resulting from a "technique" that's not especially necessary with some of the more modern semiauto pistols, myself.

I grew up handling & shooting 1911's. I'm still an owner/user of 1911's (and an armorer) ... and I was very glad when S&W finally introduced the loaded chamber inspection port. Makes it easier (and safer) to visually check for the presence of a case by seeing the rim.

You'll notice that other gun makers have followed suit by using a similarly positioned hole in the barrel hood tab. I recently saw the maker of another brand of pistols give instructions in the manual for seeing the case of a chambered round through an opening to one side of the barrel, at the extractor, as well.

Then, there's the brands/models that use the "flag" design ... like on some newer Ruger pistols and the XD's imported for Springfield ... which is also apparently available as the CA compliant version of the Shield.

 

[BIGMAC116]

What I do after a press check is make a fist with my off hand and give the slide (the rear of the slide) a little "fist bump" using the blade side of my hand. It's instinct/habit for me.

 

[RobzGuns]

I do not do press checks. No need to, because I know that if the mag is inserted, there IS a round in the chamber.

I've been pocket carrying (with pocket holster, of course) my Shield every day since May 2012 and it has never inadvertently been bumped out of battery. When holstering, my thumb rides on the rear of the slide (a technique I picket up when I was carrying an XDsc), so I wasn't pushing the grip safety when holstering).

 

[kudzu3]

What is a "press check"? Is it something that I need to do with my semi-autos? Please forgive my ignorance.

 

[mcbizkit02]

This doesn't seem like a big deal to me. Press checks are unnecessary anyway.

 

[BIGMAC116]

It's my department policy to press check after an "administrative load"

 

[Fastbolt]

It's my department policy to press check after an "administrative load"

I'm guessing either your duty weapons aren't M&P's and don't allow for an alternative method to visually inspect for a loaded chamber, or else your firearms training unit uses the practice as a "catch-all" method due to their preference? (Or at least someone's preference, as sometimes a technique can become 'locked in' when someone is an adherent of a practice/technique from another time, specific training class, etc.)

Agency policy is what it is, isn't it?

Gotta be careful what becomes formalized by policy, regulation, general order, etc. There's a certain inertia that results from formalizing things that might sometimes be better left "fluid", or perhaps flexible, as equipment design & training methods improve, evolve, etc.

 

[2tango2]

What is a "press check"? Is it something that I need to do with my semi-autos? Please forgive my ignorance.

Yeah what kudzu said.... Press check??

 

[RobzGuns]

What is a "press check"? Is it something that I need to do with my semi-autos? Please forgive my ignorance.

Very Basically... It's 'pressing' the slide back just far enough to 'check' that there is actually a round chambered. The Pop-Up Loaded Chamber Indicator (and View Port) was probably intended to eliminate the need for a Press Check

You'll often see it in TV and Films (the guy behind cover, getting ready for the shootout ).

 

[2tango2]

Oh ok. Heck my XD-S does that when I have a snap cap in there. When I pull the slide back just enough to reset the trigger it needs a bump to go back to full battery

Is this sort of what we are talking about here?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[NucPhysics]

Just to add to what has been described for those needing more info/explanation:

What the Press Check brings to light for some is that a gun may not move back into battery (close all the way) on its own when the slide is pushed backed slightly and then released. If this happens, most guns will not fire (which is better than firing out of battery of course).

The concern is if a gun is bumped or otherwise knocked out of battery in a self defense situation, and the operator doesn't know this has happened, then the gun will not fire when needed.

Some are very concerned and frustrated about this - and I do understand. I myself feel that training is paramount to help deal with some of these types of situations. Some guns do seem to be more prone on doing this. Sometimes breaking a gun in and a replacing the RSA after so many rounds may help keep things in check.

I will leave it to everyone to decide for themselves where they stand on this issue. For myself, my Shield is the only one that doesn't return on its own. My Glocks and my Walther PPQ all return to battery on their own after a press check.

 

[Edmo]

...For myself, my Shield is the only one that doesn't return on its own. My Glocks and my Walther PPQ all return to battery on their own after a press check.

Yes, I'm one of those guys who does a press check. Even though I've got a peep hole in my Shield and a raised extractor on my GLOCKs, I want to see that round.

I've also had good luck with all of my GLOCKs returning to battery after a press check. My Shield just needs a little bump on the back of the slide to make it fully close into battery.

Edmo

 

[MP1SG]

Hi
Essentially what you are doing by conducting a "press Check" is inducing a stoppage. There IS NO need to do a press check because of the Loaded Chamber indicator (Peep Hole). On a revolver I can manually cock the hammer ever so slightly to rotate the cylinder so its "out of battery" But why would i do that? Press checks are just inviting a problem of some kind. Of course if you pull the slide back slightly it may not go into battery. (its dosent happen to my shield 40 or 9). Insert the Magazine, Sling Shot the slide, Check the peep hole and holster your weapon and Charlie Mike (continue to march) . DISCLAIMER: this is all My opinion and my opinion only
Thanks

 

[robkarrob]

This issue has been discussed on this Forum, over and over. The slide will hang out of battery 1/8 to 1/4 inch, if not allowed to slam home, or if the slide is bumped back out of battery, or press checked. The M&P's don't all like to be pressed checked. The sight hole should tell you if you don't know if the chamber is loaded.

The issue is the slide is hanging at the reset tab on the trigger bar and the trigger bar reset bump, in the upper inside of the slide. What seems like a problem is not. When the trigger is pulled, the reset tab passes the bump in the slide. The slide is released and the pressure of the recoil springs pushes the slide back into full battery, before the trigger reaches the break point. This can easily be tested with a fired casing in the chamber. The slide is back to full forward and the barrel in battery, but the trigger needs to be reset. Release the trigger to reset and pull the trigger, should hear the striker release.

Bob

 

[NucPhysics]

I do not perform Press Checks on my Shield. However, the Press Check concept has made me come to the realization that my Shield is somewhat vulnerable to being knocked out of battery and not returning on its own. Knowing this, I would suggest adding this to your training/practice when handling this particular gun.

I still like the shield as my top CCW, but I feel it is important to know this can happen so you can be ready to address it in a stressful or self defense scenario.

 

[josywales]

When some of you say, "add to factor this into your training", what are you saying? Draw from your holster and rack the slide before the first shot??? I'm guessing it's thumbing the slide as you holster it, but....

EDIT: here's thread where the owner says his Shield was out of battery, when he removed it from his pocket. This doesn't sound too good: http://concealedcarryforum.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=34552

 

[supplier]

... Sometimes breaking a gun in and a replacing the RSA after so many rounds may help keep things in check. ...

.

How often recoil spring needs to be replaced on the shield? i hope 3000 rounds it's nothing for M&P series gun...

 

[BIGMAC116]

Even though its built in my muscle memory to press check and bump the slide, my 9c and 40FS always return to battery without the bump. The shield is seems to be a different animal in regards to not returning to battery.

 

[supplier]

I do not perform Press Checks on my Shield. However, the Press Check concept has made me come to the realization that my Shield is somewhat vulnerable to being knocked out of battery and not returning on its own. Knowing this, I would suggest adding this to your training/practice when handling this particular gun.

I still like the shield as my top CCW, but I feel it is important to know this can happen so you can be ready to address it in a stressful or self defense scenario.

One more question please. I never had out of battery situation yet but I carry the gun for less than 2 months and not every day either. If I understood correctly your post to prevent out of battery problem I need:
1. When I holster her - put my thumb on the rear end of the slide.
2. if/when press checked - manually push the slide all way to the front.
3. …..

What other possible situation I need to be aware off, that might lead to "out of battery" situation with Shield? Thanks

 

[Vision Remodeling]

My Shield will hang out of battery after a press check. I don't like that.


Either I figure out how to fix this or there will be a Shield for sale. There is friction between the extractor and the shell case, the barrel and the slide and the trigger bar and the slide bump. I can't imagine polishing the extractor lip, I can't grind the slide bump, I could polish the barrel I suppose.

Somewhere I need either less friction or more spring.

I polished my barrel, just for looks. It will still hang up after a press check. I see no reason for doing it. I loaded the mag, racked the slide, put another round in the mag and holster the weapon. It stays with me all day and goes in the safe at night. Untill I go to the range and shoot where would the round in the chamber go. I know it is in there. I guess everybody is different maybe you keep your gun at different states of readiness throughout the day. I have never had mine inadvertantly come out of battery and if I alow a BG to get a hand on my gun to push it out I have done something terribly wrong. It is a non issue for me. You have to decide if you can sleep at night knowing about it.

I really just wanted to let you know barrel polishing will not work. It does look good though, I will say if you come up with a fix that does work I probably would do it. I'm just not losing any sleep over it.

 

[Vision Remodeling]

I have been wanting to polish the extractor to match the barrel. I may try to do it this week. I was planning on only doing the outside, but I will see if I can do anthing with the inside lip. I will let you know in a few days.

 

[Lost Lake]

Let's keep this on track, I'll explain some more.

I don't need to do press checks, my gun is condition 1 - 24/7. My concern is it will not return to battery (with a round in the chamber --- some of you may be trying this on an empty gun) if the slide is bumped back.

What could cause this?

A bad guy grabbing for your gun in your holster and tugging the slide.

Pulling your gun while seated in your car and catching the slide on the seat belt / center console / coat / steering wheel / anything, and bumping the slide back a bit.

Rolling on the ground in a struggle.

Running and falling with your gun in your hand.

Deflecting a blow with your gun in your hand.

I could think of thousands of possible ways to bump the slide while you are fighting for your life. I don't think the average self defense battle occurs at 15 feet apart with a slow careful draw of the weapon and a complete function check.

I can push my 3913 slide back and it pops right into battery again. The 3913 is back on my hip while the Shield is down for repairs or sale if it can't be repaired.

 

[2tango2]

So in quickly glancing at the topic in the other forum...... Can this issue be attributed to too much pressure from the magazine forcing the rounds up possibly causing the slide to hang?

 

[18DAI]

Lost Lake all of my 3rd gen pistols go back into battery on their own. No pulling triggers or "bumping" them back to return to battery.

Then too, after thousands of rounds through them, the white dots haven't fallen out of their front sights either. Good luck with your shield! Regards 18DAI

 

[josywales]

Why does the Shield need batteries anyway???

Seriously, after some brief research, I've read several issues with this model. These aren't detailed explanations, but so far:

1- ability to be taken out of battery, or lack of ability to return to battery.
2 - magazines falling during recoil
3 - drift pins coming out from in front of the trigger are walking out

Some of these are issues with earlier versions, but it does strike me odd that guys are so eager to buy a gun with known issues and use it to protect their lives. I am chasing one down, since my wife liked shooting one a bit better than her G19. But if the thing doesn't swallow 500+ uneventful rounds, it's never going into service. in fact, with so much complaining, I might bump it to 1,000 rounds.

 

[Lost Lake]

So in quickly glancing at the topic in the other forum...... Can this issue be attributed to too much pressure from the magazine forcing the rounds up possibly causing the slide to hang?

No, it does it with no mag in the gun too.

 

[Smitty357]

I will be addressing this issue in a video shortly. Give me a few and let me get my things together.

 

[supplier]

Why does the Shield need batteries anyway???

Seriously, after some brief research, I've read several issues with this model. These aren't detailed explanations, but so far:

1- ability to be taken out of battery, or lack of ability to return to battery.
2 - magazines falling during recoil
3 - drift pins coming out from in front of the trigger are walking out

Some of these are issues with earlier versions, but it does strike me odd that guys are so eager to buy a gun with known issues and use it to protect their lives. .

I speak only for myself. I have a backup gun (LCP) in my pocket. I have a HD gun, which is XDm 9mm 3.8 Compact with full 19 rounds mag ( but it can double as CC with short 13 rd mag if more rounds needed).

My point is - I got originally a Beretta Nano ( as Shiled in 9mm was not available). After first range session i knew i do not want Nano anymore. I had an opportunity to be in a LGS, when two 9mm shield arrived and I took my loss on Nano and got 9mm Shield, as I knew there are some issues with .40 caliber, like:
Issue with Mag is dropping out during recoil. That's happening only on .40 guns and, i think, only on most "Snappiest" rounds. It's well known issue and that's why .40 shield is available at least here in Florida. But S&W has a fix for it. Just send it in.
Drifting Pin problem is rare and not "suddenly appearing" - you can see it's slowly drifting and S&W has a fix for it as well. Don't quote me on this, but again it's a problem with .40 caliber only and again i believe with the heavy loads as well as reloads, due to more stress on such little polymer gun. Well it's a problem. We all expect the gun to eat any kind of ammo…
My 9mm works well with crappy target and excellent SD ammo. Can't complaint.
As per battery problem - i think it's only due to the size of the barrel and double recoil spring design. I'm sure sooner or later We will have a fix for that either from S&W - please keep complaining!!!!!! or like from Wolff Spring, etc..
So far on my less than 2 month old Shield with around 3000 rounds through her I had so little malfunctioning which as a TOTAL Newbie with guns i attribute to my (operators) handling techniques. The more i used my Shield - the more and more i love her. I'm sure after another 2000-3000 rounds I'll be 100% relying my life on her
As per my LCP - she saw only few 100's rounds so far. I will put at least 1000 through her before i say she's truly reliable BUG.
My XDm had least action. I shoot it well and it on my night stand, but i live in area where it's quite safe. I just got her few weeks ago - participated in Obama's stimulate package. I also Got 2 extra 19-round mags while i can (on top 13 and 19 rds ones that came with her).
The 9mm Shield is my go to tool when i need a CC gun and i feel i'm safe carrying it.
Just my 2c

 

[2tango2]

I think some of the drifting pin issues reported by members here have been with 9's. I may be wrong but this is what I recall

I will agree that the 40 is a snappy round. 100 at the range the other day got my attention. Gun performed flawlessly though. No issues at all

I have a 9 barrel coming tomorrow as well




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD